Being realistic

[Kid Dynamite 7169]

Hands up who was relatively happy with our business this window?

 

Mitrovic

Winaldjum

Mbemba

Thauvin all in

 

Krul

Colo

Janmaat

Perez

Sissoko retained

 

Carver

Stone

Woodman all out

 

Maclaren

Cathro

Black

Smith in to replace them

 

Nearly to a man we were happy with our summer. Yes we would have liked another CF, CB and LB but it looks like they are coming in January. Yes we would have preferred Klopp in charge but let's get serious.

 

Now after 8 games our signings were shit, the manager and coaches are shit, Graeme Carr is shit etc.

 

We can't have the best of both, everyone suddenly has 20/20 hindsight 6 weeks into the season

[Andrew 4857]

I was and I'm really disappointed with our season so far.

[Howmanheyman 33837]

Hands up who was relatively happy with our business this window?

 

Mitrovic

Winaldjum

Mbemba

Thauvin all in

 

Krul

Colo

Janmaat

Perez

Sissoko retained

 

Carver

Stone

Woodman all out

 

Maclaren

Cathro

Black

Smith in to replace them

 

Nearly to a man we were happy with our summer. Yes we would have liked another CF, CB and LB but it looks like they are coming in January. Yes we would have preferred Klopp in charge but let's get serious.

 

Now after 8 games our signings were shit, the manager and coaches are shit, Graeme Carr is shit etc.

 

We can't have the best of both, everyone suddenly has 20/20 hindsight 6 weeks into the season

How many times have we questioned the buying policy at the club?

 

I notice a few are having a go at Carr, seriously, how the fuck do we know how many players he recommends are rejected? Does he even bother to nominate anyone out of the tight specifications we apparently have? Charnley we all think is out of his depth, so no change there. There was no big fanfare for McClaren and the fact he seemed happy to take the devils silver makes any future moans irrelevant, he absolutely knows what he's taking on. There isn't 20/20, just hope that things work out. Mitrovic looks like could be a player if he gets the right service, nothings changed there for me, we needed a left back, no change there, Sissoko is a cunt so don't give a fuck about him, Thauvin, no idea about him but sceptical and looking like good reason on that score. Gini looked good but seems to have the look of a bloke who's went in the wrong bar and just realised after he's already bought his pint. Krul has been shit for a while as has Colo so again I'm not bothered, (slightly more bothered about Krul bearing in mind we still have Elliot on the books).

[Howmanheyman 33837]

The main problem hasn't changed, it all stems from the owner, everything.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3965]

Hands up who was relatively happy with our business this window?

 

Mitrovic

Winaldjum

Mbemba

Thauvin all in

 

Krul

Colo

Janmaat

Perez

Sissoko retained

 

Carver

Stone

Woodman all out

 

Maclaren

Cathro

Black

Smith in to replace them

 

Nearly to a man we were happy with our summer. Yes we would have liked another CF, CB and LB but it looks like they are coming in January. Yes we would have preferred Klopp in charge but let's get serious.

 

Now after 8 games our signings were shit, the manager and coaches are shit, Graeme Carr is shit etc.

 

We can't have the best of both, everyone suddenly has 20/20 hindsight 6 weeks into the season

Don't think you'll find a quote from me saying I was happy.

[trophyshy 7084]

Or anyone crowing tbh. This is just outrageous baiting.

[adios 717]

Don't think you'll find a quote from me saying I was happy.

Ever.

[adios 717]

I was and I'm really disappointed with our season so far.

Same. I think J has a fair point.

[Alex 35573]

Hands up who was relatively happy with our business this window?

 

Mitrovic

Winaldjum

Mbemba

Thauvin all in

 

Krul

Colo

Janmaat

Perez

Sissoko retained

 

Carver

Stone

Woodman all out

 

Maclaren

Cathro

Black

Smith in to replace them

 

Nearly to a man we were happy with our summer. Yes we would have liked another CF, CB and LB but it looks like they are coming in January. Yes we would have preferred Klopp in charge but let's get serious.

 

Now after 8 games our signings were shit, the manager and coaches are shit, Graeme Carr is shit etc.

 

We can't have the best of both, everyone suddenly has 20/20 hindsight 6 weeks into the season

The one thing I would say about it is that the buying policy remains essentially the same, i.e. we may have spent more money this time round after the fright he got (with the caveat there was a canny bit extra TV money too) but a major consideration in all the signings still seems to be potential sell on value. I don't mind it as a general rule but I think you need to occasionally buy the finished article, which isn't necessarily a top player, just a steady pro you know can do a job but might be around 30 year old so isn't going to make a big profit. The policy leads to further problems, like not necessarily strengthening where you need to and, furthermore a high turnover of players means you're never that far away from players getting pissed off because they haven't got a move away and ones who couldn't give a fuck because the club's seen as just a stepping stone. I think this buying of potential carries an inherent risk (all signings do but it's increased when that seems to be the policy behind virtually every signing).

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3965]

Ever.

 

 

Well you'd definitely have to go back a lot of years to find me being happy about NUFC

[Dr Gloom 22147]

Agree with Alex. When did we last buy a senior player with experience of performing at a high level in English football? It's basics that you have at least a couple of them around to anchor the rest.

[Alex 35573]

Agree with Alex. When did we last buy a senior player with experience of performing at a high level in English football? It's basics that you have at least a couple of them around to anchor the rest.

I think it was clearly illustrated with Austin v Mitrovic (who genuinely believes we were ever going to sign both of them?). It might turn out to be a good decision (I hope it does) and there's a risk Austin wouldn't have been able to repeat his form again, obviously. But Mitrovic was definitely a riskier buy set against the greater potential sell-on value further down the road. If he'd really changed the way he was going about things you'd perhaps have seen an experienced centre-half coming in, given the need there.

[Kid Dynamite 7169]

Or anyone crowing tbh. This is just outrageous baiting.

No baiting, the threads are there for people to see. No one bar Happy Face expected us to spend £50mil and be buying £13-14mil internationals. Gini Dutch player of the year, Mitrovic wanted by Roma etc.

 

'Most' people were optimistic about this season, me included.

[Kid Dynamite 7169]

Agree with Alex. When did we last buy a senior player with experience of performing at a high level in English football? It's basics that you have at least a couple of them around to anchor the rest.

Outside the top 6 when did any club buy an established English player? Mbemba for £8mil of Stones for £38mil?

[trophyshy 7084]

No baiting, the threads are there for people to see. No one bar Happy Face expected us to spend £50mil and be buying £13-14mil internationals. Gini Dutch player of the year, Mitrovic wanted by Roma etc.

 

'Most' people were optimistic about this season, me included.

 

"everyone suddenly has 20/20 hindsight 6 weeks into the season"This is complete bollocks.

[Dr Gloom 22147]

Outside the top 6 when did any club buy an established English player? Mbemba for £8mil of Stones for £38mil?

Did I say English?

 

Colo and Krul are probably the two currently on our books to qualify, but one is nearing retirement and the other is a keeper. It'd be refreshing if we signed a core of outfield players with experience of playing at a high level in the English premier league who don't need time to adjust to the game, culture, weather etc.

 

If Ashley did that, and I'm sure McClaren would have inquired about one or two, the blame for our shit form could lie squarely on the manager instead of across him and the owner.

[Alex 35573]

Outside the top 6 when did any club buy an established English player? Mbemba for £8mil of Stones for £38mil?

He didn't specify they had to be English and neither did I. Robert Huth would be a decent example of someone who would've bolstered the squad. Can't believe we're unable to pay £3m for him or match Leicester's wages but he doesn't fit the profile. Not saying he's great but he'd easily get a game for us (his poor injury record notwithstanding). He's a significant upgrade on the likes of Williamson and Taylor. Do you agree with the point about the policy still being about buying players you can sell on at a profit and that being a factor that almost overrides everything else? Because I'm yet to see evidence otherwise.

[Dr Gloom 22147]

No baiting, the threads are there for people to see. No one bar Happy Face expected us to spend £50mil and be buying £13-14mil internationals. Gini Dutch player of the year, Mitrovic wanted by Roma etc.

 

'Most' people were optimistic about this season, me included.

 

i don't think many of us saw us being even worse than last season under carver. it seemed we'd hit the bottom last year, but though the consensus was we'd do better than last season, i don't recall anyone being overly optimistic, or expecting us to be more than mid to lower table fodder.

 

after such a crap year, any hint of ambition from ashley was going to be welcomed. i don't think anyone was getting carried away though. i certainly wasn't.

[Alex 35573]

 

i don't think many of us saw us being even worse than last season under carver. it seemed we'd hit the bottom last year, but though the consensus was we'd do better than last season, i don't recall anyone being overly optimistic, or expecting us to be more than mid to lower table fodder.

 

after such a crap year, any hint of ambition from ashley was going to be welcomed. i don't think anyone was getting carried away though. i certainly wasn't.

That pretty much sums up the view by most. Who'd seen enough of the likes of Mitrovic to really comment on him as a player? At the same time it was a positive statement of intent so there was some muted optimism against the backdrop of the end of last season.

[Dr Gloom 22147]

i think, as frustrating as it is watching the current crap being served up, that we have to be patient with macclaren. give him a bit of a chance to try and organise these players and get them looking like they give a shit. i honestly don't see a better manager coming in even if he is sacked, and though he has been backed, the players that have come in are all either young or inexperienced in england. he's not helping his cause if he doesn't change things up though. he's got to try something different because the current formation/selection hasn't worked all season.

 

hopefully mitrovic can stay on the pitch for more than five minutes and give us a bit of a boost. i'm resigned to losing to chelsea and city but even something approaching a performance would be something to build on.

[Kid Dynamite 7169]

Did I say English?

 

Colo and Krul are probably the two currently on our books to qualify, but one is nearing retirement and the other is a keeper. It'd be refreshing if we signed a core of outfield players with experience of playing at a high level in the English premier league who don't need time to adjust to the game, culture, weather etc.

 

If Ashley did that, and I'm sure McClaren would have inquired about one or two, the blame for our shit form could lie squarely on the manager instead of across him and the owner.

Misread sorry, same point applies though. Which established premier league players moved? Ings and Milner, on crazy wages to Liverpool along with Clyne. Sterling to City? If a premier league team has a good premier league player then why would the sell them to a rival?

[Kid Dynamite 7169]

He didn't specify they had to be English and neither did I. Robert Huth would be a decent example of someone who would've bolstered the squad. Can't believe we're unable to pay £3m for him or match Leicester's wages but he doesn't fit the profile. Not saying he's great but he'd easily get a game for us (his poor injury record notwithstanding). He's a significant upgrade on the likes of Williamson and Taylor. Do you agree with the point about the policy still being about buying players you can sell on at a profit and that being a factor that almost overrides everything else? Because I'm yet to see evidence otherwise.

But Huth is worse than Mbemba? So that doesn't really prove that theory

[Howay 12496]

 

i don't think many of us saw us being even worse than last season under carver. it seemed we'd hit the bottom last year, but though the consensus was we'd do better than last season, i don't recall anyone being overly optimistic, or expecting us to be more than mid to lower table fodder.

 

after such a crap year, any hint of ambition from ashley was going to be welcomed. i don't think anyone was getting carried away though. i certainly wasn't.

Aye I think that's it tbh. Most of us saw it as a good window, we knew there were still gaping holes in the squad but as the squad has been constantly neglected and thinned (not just meaning big sales but we've consistently saw decent contributors leave without being replaced) most were happy just to see some of those holes partially covered. I think the worst move was Thauvin, most worried when he signed and I don't think many thought he was any better than Cabella really so that 13m could have been used elsewhere.

 

Overall though Gloom is spot on here we somehow look more clueless than we did under Carver, a little more organized at the back (probably helped by our new 8m CB) but more clueless going forward. I don't know what's wrong with this club (clearly Ashley overall but surely he can't be the main reason we look so clueless on the field) but we've basically had teams on the field making 5 yard passes look difficult for the best part of 3 year.

[Dr Gloom 22147]

Misread sorry, same point applies though. Which established premier league players moved? Ings and Milner, on crazy wages to Liverpool along with Clyne. Sterling to City? If a premier league team has a good premier league player then why would the sell them to a rival?

 

it's not unheard of for premier league clubs to sell established players to each other, but then the buying club usually has to pay more on wages than if you raid the french or dutch markets.

[Alex 35573]

But Huth is worse than Mbemba? So that doesn't really prove that theory

What theory? I'm undecided on Mbemba not having seen enough of him but he's clearly an unknown quantity in the Premier League. It's don't know what point you think I was making but it wasn't advocating buying Huth instead of Mbemba. He went to Leicester in January. We're not exactly well stocked with central defenders so why not get someone like him? He was just an example really of the type of player we wouldn't go for but would be reasonably cheap addition to the squad that would improve it.