West Ham United v Newcastle United 14/9/15 20:00 KO (On Sky)

[Dr Gloom 21923]

 

No, I'm saying that we had the same shit start last year, but managed to survive in spite of Carver taking NEwcastle United on the worst run in it's history. Yet people are wetting the bed already.

 

We haven't been shit though. We've been decent at home against Arsenal (despite losing a man early doors to a harsh red), good at Old Trafford and good against Southampton. We were average against Swansea, dominant against a poor cup opposition and fucking terrible last night. Lets not rewrite history just because we've a bad day at the office. Also, when you say "people" you mean you, right?

 

 

The 2nd from right column shows the comparison between where the team finished, vs where their opposition finished. So, on average, our opposition finished 8 places higher than us in the league, whereas Southampton finished 8.6 positions higher than those they've faced. They've had a poor start to the season, ours isn't a surprise.

 

In short, we've had a very, very hard start to the league so can everybody just calm the fuck down.

 

no, i'm not usually the first on here to start turning on a manager. it'd be silly to write him off already. but another defeat at home to watford and i reckon the crowd will be less forgiving.

 

i think he wants to have a look at himself if he doesn't make some changes though for the next game. i don't know how many more games he needs before he realises the current formation and 11 players isn't working.

 

the lack of progress on field is a concern. i expected more cohesion in the attacking third. we look pretty well organised at the back but fucking clueless going forward on the evidence so far. playing cisse up front on his own with no one near by for him to play off is school boy.

[The Fish 10857]

 

Swansea was just as shite as last night. And saying Everton are better is exactly what is disappointing. We're supposed to be aiming to finish above them.

 

I don't think anyone's panicking really. There's no-one saying sack McClaren or owt daft, I think we all assume we'll put some wins together soon and the fact that the likes of Leicester, Bournemouth, Norwich and the Mackems have had some of the easiest starts makes people as relaxed as they were at the end of December that we aren't relegation candidates

 

Still, after the big spending summer it's daft to imagine people won't be disappointed, no matter what the fixture computer threw up. Crystal Palace, Everton, West Brom and Watford have all had fixtures as tough as us really. They've managed to wring more points out of them than we have. It suggests the top half optimism needs to be tempered towards another lower mid-table write off of a season Ashley has consistently delivered, one relegation and one Euro qulification aside.

 

Are we? I took the mentions of 8th and a cup to be a longer term plan. McClaren has said that their are plans afoot for the next 2 windows as well. I'd be amazed if we finished in the top 8 this season. I reckon 12th is a much more realistic final position and on recent performances I think 12th is a likely finish for us.

 

I'm hoping that a run in the side for Mitrovic will improve our fortunes. Cisse was beyond useless last night and I have strong doubts as to whether Perez will be any better up top on his own.

 

I think a lot of the blame has to land at Thauvin & Sissoko's feet, zero delivery from them and less movement. At least if Perez had started he'd have shown some invention and dynamism rather than lurking round the penalty spot hoping for something to fall to him. Or standing offside as often as is humanly possible.

 

 

no, i'm not usually the first on here to start turning on a manager. it'd be silly to write him off already. but another defeat at home to watford and i reckon the crowd will be less forgiving.

 

i think he wants to have a look at himself if he doesn't make some changes though for the next game. i don't know how many more games he needs before he realises the current formation and 11 players isn't working.

 

the lack of progress on field is a concern. i expected more cohesion in the attacking third. we look pretty well organised at the back but fucking clueless going forward on the evidence so far. playing cisse up front on his own with no one near by for him to play off is school boy.

 

Yeah I didn't understand this? Maybe McClaren was expecting/hoping GW, MS & FT to be more supportive? But Cisse has never in his life been a target man, nor a player that play can pivot around. His touch is awful, as is his awareness of other's movement. He's an instinctive finisher and he'd be great if we were playing Ba or Austin alongside him, but I just can't see this particular square peg fitting in any of the holes in the team.

[Lackie92 1]

Going forward we have to:

 

Start Perez - added an attacking threat straight away.

Play De Jong - more matches the better, he's lacking match sharpness but you can see there is a footballer in there from last night.

Stop playing Colback and Anita - they are pish.

Sissoko should be playing in a more central role rather than shunted out to the right.

Cisse can't play upfront by himself.

Thauvin needs a kick up the arse, I can't believe we paid £13 million for a guy that was in Ligue 1's worst team of the year last season - mental.

[Happy Face 29]

We finished 10th 16 months ago and your realistic target this season, having thrown £50m at that squad is 12th?

 

I thought the 3 window plan was for winning trophies and (in mikes words) "I include champions league qualification in that"

[Lackie92 1]

We finished 10th 16 months ago and your realistic target this season, having thrown £50m at that squad is 10th?

 

I thought the 3 window plan was for winning trophies and (in mikes words) "I include champions league qualification in that"

I think that's more a reflection on poor investment rather than little ambition.

[trooper 940]

2 up top is the way forward

[trophyshy 7083]

2 up top is the way forward

 

And one from the bottom please Carol.

[The Fish 10857]

We finished 10th 16 months ago and your realistic target this season, having thrown £50m at that squad is 12th?

 

I thought the 3 window plan was for winning trophies and (in mikes words) "I include champions league qualification in that"

 

Well, yeah. I don't think concentrating on a monetary value of players is a good idea though. Newcastle have spent less and achieved more. I'm prepared to see another season of midtable mediocrity go by if I can see real change. When you see the ambition of other teams has been in effect for years, it'll take more than just 1 season of spending on a few areas to catch up or overtake them. Fwiw I don't think buying 10 players would necessarily resolved the issues at the club.

 

We may well finish 8th, but I don't think it's unrealistic for us to both, finish 12th and have seen enough improvement in the club/team to warrant optimism. And you never know, we may get a favourable route to a cup final and fluke a pot?

 

To have grabbed 8th, we would have needed to change the club from top to toe. New Players, new coaches, new chairman, new owner.

A backroom overhaul is a good start, but the first 11 hasn't changed that much and we're still relying on the wrong players to perform.

[Happy Face 29]

I think that's more a reflection on poor investment rather than little ambition.

 

Other than Riviere I wouldn't write off anyone signed in the last 2 years. The problem has been we're still looking for bargains to accrue value rather than what the team needs. Mbemba and Janmaat filled an immediate need and have been just about ever present since arriving. But we fanny about buying a load of cheap attacking midfielders/wingers without giving ourselves any options in terms of quality to go ahead of them. Bench last night had 5 (five) of these sorts in Obertan, Gouffran, Aarons, Perez and De Jong in addition to Wijnaldum and Thauvin who started. None of those 7 (8 if you can include Sissoko) are ever going to be regular goalscorers and when Cisse is looking as shit as he is on his lonesome we're totally toothless.

[trooper 940]

And one up your bottom please Carol.

Fixed it for you

[aimaad22 4156]

Anita reads the game well, is competent technically and gives a shit. Put that inside a bigger frame and he'd be a decent defensive midfielder.

 

He's not got the game to be a proper defensive midfielder or a creative force. With the diminutive size you might expect pace and flair, but its not there. Im not sure the management knows where to play him. Yes there's a neat little passer in there with a decent understanding of the game but its not enough for this league.

[Dr Gloom 21923]

it has to be anita or colback. we're too predictable with both of them in there, sitting deep, passing sideways. play one of them alongside sissoko, or drop both

[David Kelly 1245]

He's not got the game to be a proper defensive midfielder or a creative force. With the diminutive size you might expect pace and flair, but its not there. Im not sure the management knows where to play him. Yes there's a neat little passer in there with a decent understanding of the game but its not enough for this league.

I agree. Personally I think we need Tiote back doing a proper job in there as the defensive midfielder. That's assuming he can recover some form. If he can, I would play him alongside Gini and then play two up top (well SDJ just behind Mitro if we can ever get/keep the two of them on the pitch).

 

Last night was shite but I'm not going to get overly excited about that. All but the best teams have awful games at times and I've definitely seen signs of improvement over last season so far (in fact even last night our defense looked reasonable, it was just that we couldn't do anything up front). McClaren must surely realise now from the three starts he's had that Cisse cannot play that lone striker role. He barely touches the ball and when he does he loses it. I'd get SDJ up with him on Saturday and play Perez instead of that gutless twat Sissoko. At least then we will have some movement and some players who can keep a hold of the ball.

[essembeeofsunderland 811]

Thauvin looked like a boy in a mans world.

[scoobos 298]

Forget Tiote, he's not worth it ..

 

Have to say in response to my own comment.

 

No , it isn't too early to say the formation doesn't work. Not with Colback anyway.

[Happy Face 29]

nufc chart toppers per game over 5 games

 

Dribbles - Janmaat (1.8)

Shots - Janmaat (1.3)

Tackles - Mbemba (4)

Clearances - Mbemba (8.6)

Interceptions - Haidara (3)

Fouled - Haidara (1.8)

Key Passes - Sissoko (1.5)

Crosses - Sissoko (1.3)

Passes - Colback (41.2)

Pass accuracy - Colback (89.3%)

Aerials - Mitovic (1.5)

Blocks - Coloccini (1.6)

 

Poor Control - Sissoko (3.3)

Fouls - Anita (1.8)

Long Balls - Coloccini (4.6)

Dispossessed - Haidara (1.6)

[David Kelly 1245]

nufc chart toppers per game over 5 games

 

Dribbles - Janmaat (1.8)

Shots - Janmaat (1.3)

Tackles - Mbemba (4)

Clearances - Mbemba (8.6)

Interceptions - Haidara (3)

Fouled - Haidara (1.8)

Key Passes - Sissoko (1.5)

Crosses - Sissoko (1.3)

Passes - Colback (41.2)

Pass accuracy - Colback (89.3%)

Aerials - Mitovic (1.5)

Blocks - Coloccini (1.6)

 

Poor Control - Sissoko (3.3)

Fouls - Anita (1.8)

Long Balls - Coloccini (4.6)

Dispossessed - Haidara (1.6)

That poor controll one for Sissoko is quite telling. He thinks he's a champions league player too. The amount of moves that break down with him is ridiculous. Mind you, I doubt that would happen so much with him in the middle.

[Happy Face 29]

Anita reads the game well, is competent technically and gives a shit. Put that inside a bigger frame and he'd be a decent defensive midfielder.

 

Colback is a walking yellow card, handy to have when you need someone to annoy the opposition, but not great at maintaining a rhythm to the game. We need someone to be a pivot on the pitch, if that's PErez or de Jong, then that's grand, but it'd be better if it was someone central imo.

 

 

I'd rather have Colback who gets involved more and tries to go forward more than Anita who is less involved and plays it backwards more when he does receive the ball, even when his pass completion is better.

[essembeeofsunderland 811]

Sissoko reminds me more and more of Jonas,but on the other side of the pitch.Running up and down the wing and creating nowt,never getting a centre in and never scoring.He is more of a Championship player than Champions League player.

[trooper 940]

4-2-4 formation against Watford Sissoko on one wing Aarons on the other Perez & De Jong up top. It's got to be more effective than Cissé up there by himself grinning everytime he gets caught offside or misses a chance.

[Happy Face 29]

 

 

I'd rather have Colback who gets involved more and tries to go forward more than Anita who is less involved and plays it backwards more when he does receive the ball, even when his pass completion is better.

 

Forgot about Squawka. Can correct myself with numbers for the whole season...

 

 

So while Colback is still more involved, and actually completes more of his passes, it's to a negligible extent, and over the rest of the games he's played it backwards much more than Anita which surprises me.

 

He seems to be doing more with his forward passes in a more advanced position though, judging on chance creation and important passes.

[essembeeofsunderland 811]

If you have nobody to pass to in front of you then the second best option is to pass to a teammate.This is what Jack does

[Happy Face 29]

 

But when all is said and done, Tiote was almost doing the work of both of these two on his own just last year... and people were hammering him for being less of a player than he had been in his first 2 seasons.

[aimaad22 4156]

That says it all really. Neither one is really upto the mark for this level yet we're playing both at the same time. Sort it out McClaren.

[strawb 4251]

Thought all the players were cack last night, so discussing who was better than who achieves little.

 

Won't be getting overly worried about it though, reckon we will improve a fair bit and be pretty comfortable all things told.