Is all our culture just Karaoke now?

[Park Life 71]

More of sta-prest kid tbh.

Turn ups?

[Alex 35571]

Turn ups?

Don't think so.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3964]

Which is why I cannot fathom the desire to meddle with the BBC.

 

We'll see more Richard Hammond fronted idiocy and less Peaky Blinders

 

 

The BBC are doing a good job of killing themselves at the moment

 

[The Fish 10963]

 

 

The BBC are doing a good job of killing themselves at the moment

 

 

 

I don't think they are at all, I think the BBC are under increasing pressure from Sky and services like Netflix and rather than allow them to be competitive, the government want to further privatise the Beeb, which will only result in the bottom of the barrel being scraped further as they search for an even lower common denominator.

[Alex 35571]

 

 

The BBC are doing a good job of killing themselves at the moment

 

 

Deliberate Tory ploy tbh. We'll miss it when it's gone (or is virtually unrecognisable).

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3964]

Deliberate Tory ploy tbh. We'll miss it when it's gone (or is virtually unrecognisable).

 

Don't get me wrong I think the BBC is a great idea and should be protected however it is having a good go at shooting itself with things like this.

[PaddockLad 17643]

What did punk revolt against? Thatcher? You need to check your dates. Punk was dressing up and taking shit drugs and petered out after 2 or 3 years. Rave was dressing up and taking great drugs and has lasted 3 decades.

 

Rave > punk. I am old enough to remember punk too.

 

There was more of what may be termed revolutionary theory around punk when it started (on both sides of the atlantic) than there was to UK djs and mid 80s soul boys discovering Chicago House and subsequently giving it to the masses, but I agree that punk disappeared up its own arse virtually as soon as it started. If you want to split hairs about dates then true rave culture was killed by the criminal justice act 1993(?) which gave the police powers to close down any gathering of more than three peopleplaying "repetitive beats". That may look as if it was truly revolutionary, but by that time criminal gangs had mostly been running the big events since 89 and the true spirit of the original scene had long gone. Once the super clubs like Fabric in London opened and nights like Cream and Gods Kitchen were act their peak in the mid nineties it was as dead as punk was iyam.

[Alex 35571]

That might be your opinion but it doesn't tally with reality.

[PaddockLad 17643]

We'll hang on, McLaren was influenced by Situationism and the beat poets of the 50s, wtf was Mike Pickering and the crowd at the Hacienda influenced by? Don't get me wrong, I've nothing against what may be termed rave culture and the pioneers of it in this country and the U.S. did truly create something that changed the game, but my point is the idea behind it was nothing more than having a great time off your tits to loud music. Whether anyone thinks he's a wanker or had much influence or not, McLaren was coming at life from a very different angle.

[Meenzer 15716]

Rave ≠ reality, shirley

[The Fish 10963]

That might be your opinion but it doesn't tally with reality.

 

 

I imagine that being delivered from behind a broadsheet paper like so;

[PaddockLad 17643]

Rave ≠ reality, shirley

Rave=alternative reality?

[Ayatollah Hermione 14047]

Is Dave the Rave still alive btw?

[Alex 35571]

We'll hang on, McLaren was influenced by Situationism and the beat poets of the 50s, wtf was Mike Pickering and the crowd at the Hacienda influenced by? Don't get me wrong, I've nothing against what may be termed rave culture and the pioneers of it in this country and the U.S. did truly create something that changed the game, but my point is the idea behind it was nothing more than having a great time off your tits to loud music. Whether anyone thinks he's a wanker or had much influence or not, McLaren was coming at life from a very different angle.

You were arguing it was as dead as punk by the mid 90s. It wasn't in any way, shape or form.

[PaddockLad 17643]

You were arguing it was as dead as punk by the mid 90s. It wasn't in any way, shape or form.

I said in its original form and spirit. By the mid nineties it was just another bunch of kids getting walloped in nightclubs. Tbh my parents had done that and they're now 79 and 80.

[Alex 35571]

I said in its original form and spirit. By the mid nineties it was just another bunch of kids getting walloped in nightclubs. Tbh my parents had done that and they're now 79 and 80.

It wasn't just that by then. Aye, the superclubs were massive etc. but legal (and illegal) raves were alive and kicking. The underground music scene was still vibrant, there were clubs which were underground and them, along with the aforementioned raves were a million miles from places like Cream. Have you been to these places you're critiquing btw? Because I was there and I know what I'm talking about.

[PaddockLad 17643]

It wasn't just that by then. Aye, the superclubs were massive etc. but legal (and illegal) raves were alive and kicking. The underground music scene was still vibrant, there were clubs which were underground and them, along with the aforementioned raves were a million miles from places like Cream. Have you been to these places you're critiquing btw? Because I was there and I know what I'm talking about.

By the mid nineties I'd lost a bit of interest in it tbh(it couldn't compete with keegans side) and I was never a full on rave head anyway, but I was at what was allegedly on of the first parties in Scotland, no way of properly knowing now tbh, it was held in an old quarry near Dalkeith around 88ish. Then I moved down south, and there was a big scene centered on outdoor parties in the new forest during the summer and a club near Worthing called Sterns and one in Bournemouth called Maddison's.

 

These were local "rave clubs" they'd get the likes of Carl cox and John dig weed, the new forest efforts I honestly couldn't tell you who played but they were a lot more obscure.Then there was the odd trip to London for ministry,which was just full of wankers tbh and put me off big clubs pretty much for good with their door policy. Slinky started in Bournemouth around this time and that tosser from hayzee fantazee (Jeremy??) seemed to play every week. It was fuckin dreadful tbh and the new forest gang started getting nicked regularly so they knocked it on the head. VW bug jams were good too I remember, The Progidy turned up in their "harlequin suit" days a couple of times.

[ChezGiven 0]

Mike Pickering was a Motown / Northern Soul fan who played in punk bands in the 70s, managed bands in Manchester and put on New Order's second gig after Ian died.

 

Punk was important but its greatest legacy in how we dress, not how we live or what we listen to.

[ChezGiven 0]

Rave is more alive today because of the US than at any other time in history. Not bad for a music scene based on sampling hoovers and sticking vicks up your nose.

[PaddockLad 17643]

Rave is more alive today because of the US than at any other time in history. Not bad for a music scene based on sampling hoovers and sticking vicks up your nose.

 

The point is it's culturally dead though. It obviously didn't start out as a global phenomenon, but as usual once the mass market claims it it loses its originality which is what the OP in this thread is (I think??) saying. Am not an elitist, I love the popular as much as the obscure, and if kids today love it who the fuck am I to say it's shit and it was better in my day, but it was never intended to be anything more than a good time and as soon as the money men got hold of it it changed for the worst reasons.Punk in essence wanted to change society but failed miserably due to elitism and lack of anything truly coherant by way of a message.

 

Am sure I'll be crucified for saying this too but rave/house/dance music hasn't really moved on much either iyam but I'm probably not the best qualified person on here to make that judgement. I'll just go back to my A guy called Gerald box set

[Park Life 71]

Anu is still present although it was imagined he would be filtered and distilled within the machinery, but there were gaps in the beats and his old world magic perplexed the handlers. Experimental hosting in the fields led the instinctive path from arcane to anarchy. Hemlock my dears is never in short supply - you take that field trip to Egypt you ain't never really gettin back to Greece.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Park Life

[Alex 35571]

By the mid nineties I'd lost a bit of interest in it tbh(it couldn't compete with keegans side) and I was never a full on rave head anyway, but I was at what was allegedly on of the first parties in Scotland, no way of properly knowing now tbh, it was held in an old quarry near Dalkeith around 88ish. Then I moved down south, and there was a big scene centered on outdoor parties in the new forest during the summer and a club near Worthing called Sterns and one in Bournemouth called Maddison's.

 

These were local "rave clubs" they'd get the likes of Carl cox and John dig weed, the new forest efforts I honestly couldn't tell you who played but they were a lot more obscure.Then there was the odd trip to London for ministry,which was just full of wankers tbh and put me off big clubs pretty much for good with their door policy. Slinky started in Bournemouth around this time and that tosser from hayzee fantazee (Jeremy??) seemed to play every week. It was fuckin dreadful tbh and the new forest gang started getting nicked regularly so they knocked it on the head. VW bug jams were good too I remember, The Progidy turned up in their "harlequin suit" days a couple of times.

The point is the scene was still there in the mid-90s with the same attitude etc. it had just splintered so you had to look a bit harder. Don't assume the superclubs with their door policies were the be all and end all.

Jeremy Healy btw. He was the opposite end of the scale. I wasn't averse to going clubbing but people like DiY, Universe, Megatripolis etc. were doing stuff that was nothing like the more mainstream places. There was, by coincidence a big rave scene in Leicestershire at that time where there were loads of free parties taking place because the local plod had a policy of not enforcing the Criminal Justice Act unless there were other reasons to close the parties down (residential areas etc). There was loads going on. I do think it gets a bit daft when you try to say a movement like Rave or Punk has lost its original spirit or attitude or whatever though because you need to define what that was in the first place which is virtually impossible.

[Alex 35571]

The point is it's culturally dead though. It obviously didn't start out as a global phenomenon, but as usual once the mass market claims it it loses its originality which is what the OP in this thread is (I think??) saying. Am not an elitist, I love the popular as much as the obscure, and if kids today love it who the fuck am I to say it's shit and it was better in my day, but it was never intended to be anything more than a good time and as soon as the money men got hold of it it changed for the worst reasons.Punk in essence wanted to change society but failed miserably due to elitism and lack of anything truly coherant by way of a message.

 

Am sure I'll be crucified for saying this too but rave/house/dance music hasn't really moved on much either iyam but I'm probably not the best qualified person on here to make that judgement. I'll just go back to my A guy called Gerald box set

What do you mean by 'culturally dead'?

[PaddockLad 17643]

What do you mean by 'culturally dead'?

For me, there's nothing coming in from the underground that's properly influencing the mainstream, I.e what could be loosely called what you'd hear on radion one. Radio one used to play the weird and the slightly avant garde without really knowing it. Yes you had SAW, but you also had Inner City. I've just finished a job where there was lots of young uns with radio one on and even with my fairly broad mind I've got to say the music was unutterably fuckin shit. That's not age, am open to anything but can you find any originality in the trancey shite that dominates radio one nowadays? It's the same music that I hated when it became popular in clubs in the later 1990s. Am sure you can give me examples of good stuff to try but I doubt if it's going to be top of the download charts anytime soon

[Alex 35571]

For me, there's nothing coming in from the underground that's properly influencing the mainstream, I.e what could be loosely called what you'd hear on radion one. Radio one used to play the weird and the slightly avant garde without really knowing it. Yes you had SAW, but you also had Inner City. I've just finished a job where there was lots of young uns with radio one on and even with my fairly broad mind I've got to say the music was unutterably fuckin shit. That's not age, am open to anything but can you find any originality in the trancey shite that dominates radio one nowadays? It's the same music that I hated when it became popular in clubs in the later 1990s. Am sure you can give me examples of good stuff to try but I doubt if it's going to be top of the download charts anytime soon

Yeah but that's you applying a bizarre standard to it iyam. Go back to about 1991 and you had Simon Bates playing sloppy shite on Radio 1. Does that mean it was culturally dead then? I still don't know what the fuck that means btw. But the output on Radio 1 is just what the people running it decide they want the station to be at any given time. You'd be better off checking out Radio 6 on a Saturday night tbh. And you're also coming at it from 20 years down the line. We're old farts.

Charts have totally changed too. As has the way people listen to and obtain music so the comparison is unfair.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Alex