Park Life 71 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 There is a kind of sad beauty to it...But when did all this shit start? And why do we love it so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35569 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 It's all so fucking ironic. Which I just love Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 Saw a doc about Malcolm McLaren the other day and he was saying the Pistols were just a live art piece...Some kind of situationist intervention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10963 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Worst thing is it doesn't feel like there's a frustration that will build to a Punk-like reaction. It's just apathy and mollified masses. Music, literature and art (and comedy) might not affect change, but they can... I dunno, encourage it? maybe? But people would rather accept None Direction and bad Rap artists, than 3 chords on two guitars that actually say something. We're TOWIE-ing our way into a torpor we won't wake up from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35569 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Saw a doc about Malcolm McLaren the other day and he was saying the Pistols were just a live art piece...Some kind of situationist intervention. He was a fraud. It was pure luck on his part. He had no control over the band whatsoever. Talked a good game after the event though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2207 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 He was a fraud. It was pure luck on his part. He had no control over the band whatsoever. Talked a good game after the event though. That's it exactly. The guy was such a pseud and tried to take credit for stuff he had nothing to do with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17643 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Weeeeelllll...... He and Vivienne Westwood owned a shop called Sex on he kings road in the 70s and the band was named after the shop to promote it, the lads used the shop as a hang out and were encouraged to wear it's clothes. He was was heavily influenced by the Situationist thing, in the 60s he belonged to a sort of collective who went into toy shops and just started to randomly hand toys out to whatever kids were in the store at the time. It's absolutely true to say that he talked himself up massively throughout his life but to dismiss him out of hand as some sort of chancer who got lucky to become famous etc is equally un true. He and Westwood invented the band and he set up all the stunts that got them into the tabloids which is how they maintained their notoriety after the Bill Grundy swearing thing in 1976. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17643 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Worst thing is it doesn't feel like there's a frustration that will build to a Punk-like reaction. It's just apathy and mollified masses. Music, literature and art (and comedy) might not affect change, but they can... I dunno, encourage it? maybe? But people would rather accept None Direction and bad Rap artists, than 3 chords on two guitars that actually say something. We're TOWIE-ing our way into a torpor we won't wake up from. We're three quarters of a century on from the last truly national crisis, you've got to be 80 to remember the war. That's the last time the country was truly united in anything. Since then there's been the end of colonialism, the energy crisis, various financial ups and downs, the end of the 20th century's huge social "experiment" i.e. Communism etc etc...we appear to just bumble along now, all the big ideas have been fought over and the strange thing for me is they've all been discredited but nothing has ultimately won out, all were left with is a fuckin vacuum where the talentless and desperate are promoted to us by a plainly sick fuckin media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35569 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Weeeeelllll...... He and Vivienne Westwood owned a shop called Sex on he kings road in the 70s and the band was named after the shop to promote it, the lads used the shop as a hang out and were encouraged to wear it's clothes. He was was heavily influenced by the Situationist thing, in the 60s he belonged to a sort of collective who went into toy shops and just started to randomly hand toys out to whatever kids were in the store at the time. It's absolutely true to say that he talked himself up massively throughout his life but to dismiss him out of hand as some sort of chancer who got lucky to become famous etc is equally un true. He and Westwood invented the band and he set up all the stunts that got them into the tabloids which is how they maintained their notoriety after the Bill Grundy swearing thing in 1976. Bill Grundy goaded the band into saying something controversial and they did. McLaren tried to take the credit for instigating it afterwards. Another case in point tbh. The bit in bold btw Forgive me for being less than impressed. Wtf is that supposed to prove in relation to the Pistols? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17643 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Bill Grundy goaded the band into saying something controversial and they did. McLaren tried to take the credit for instigating it afterwards. Another case in point tbh. The bit in bold btw Forgive me for being less than impressed. Wtf is that supposed to prove in relation to the Pistols? Don't ask me, I only read it in a book Parky mentioned McLaren in conjunction with Situationism in this thread, all I was saying he was involved in the 60s and had a history of pulling attention seeking stunts. I don't think we can take McLaren's version (or Lydons for that matter, another side of the same coin) of events entirely seriously and I'm not, am just saying you can't dismiss him virtually out of hand because he was a bit of a self aggrandising prick. It's all in here, a great read a pretty well objective and balanced http://www.amazon.co.uk/Englands-Dreaming-Jon-Savage/dp/0571227201 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Punk was kinda the last 'real' thing that happened in England and to a certain extent the electronic scene fueled as it was by working class dreams/bands from Sheffield, Manchester and Liverpool. These are the last surviving meta texts before the nuke strikes that turned working class culture into pantomime and self-parody. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXvl1_IgGmI Edited July 30, 2015 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17643 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 They were almost without exception hugely influenced by Bowie and Eno. Without them punk and pop music in the 80s in general would've sounded vastly different. Punk was a rejection of the post war consensus; "we fave that hitler a damn good hiding!" Well they did, but by the 70s their offspring, the baby boomers, had had enough hearing them bang on about it and the dreams that their parents had in 1945 had pretty much turned to ratshit by the 70s for various socio political reasons. Tbh the future was bleakish, but you could save and buy a house pretty easily if you avoided the mass unemployment soon to arrive. That's a lot more than debt ridden 20 something's fresh out of uni can look forward to nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 There is a kind of sad beauty to it...But when did all this shit start? And why do we love it so? Isn't that the problem with post-modernism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 I was saying to my daughter the other day that Gaga is basically Bowie and I had to Ytube the shit out of it before she fleetingly understood something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 The Rave scene was far more 'punk' than the punk scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I was saying to my daughter the other day that Gaga is basically Bowie and I had to Ytube the shit out of it before she fleetingly understood something. eventually agreed with Dad so he would stfu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35569 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Don't ask me, I only read it in a book Parky mentioned McLaren in conjunction with Situationism in this thread, all I was saying he was involved in the 60s and had a history of pulling attention seeking stunts. I don't think we can take McLaren's version (or Lydons for that matter, another side of the same coin) of events entirely seriously and I'm not, am just saying you can't dismiss him virtually out of hand because he was a bit of a self aggrandising prick. It's all in here, a great read a pretty well objective and balanced http://www.amazon.co.uk/Englands-Dreaming-Jon-Savage/dp/0571227201 Glen Matlock's book is a good take on it too. Obviously he had an axe to grind with McLaren as well but it doesn't come across as that bitter and a lot of it rings true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17643 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I was saying to my daughter the other day that Gaga is basically Bowie and I had to Ytube the shit out of it before she fleetingly understood something. Am not much of fan of her musically tbh but her revisionism is strangely refreshing....she's far, far more interesting than Madonna has ever been... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35569 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Am not much of fan of her musically tbh but her revisionism is strangely refreshing....she's far, far more interesting than Madonna has ever been... I can't stand Madonna like. Speaking of frauds. I think True Blue was a good pop record though tbf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17643 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 The Rave scene was far more 'punk' than the punk scene. That's what the media will tell you but outside of a few idealists what they instigated was a drugs fest, and you're going revolt against the square root of fuck all if you're whacked off your nut on four or five doves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) eventually agreed with Dad so he would stfu. Edited July 30, 2015 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 That's what the media will tell you but outside of a few idealists what they instigated was a drugs fest, and you're going revolt against the square root of fuck all if you're whacked off your nut on four or five doves. What did punk revolt against? Thatcher? You need to check your dates. Punk was dressing up and taking shit drugs and petered out after 2 or 3 years. Rave was dressing up and taking great drugs and has lasted 3 decades. Rave > punk. I am old enough to remember punk too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonotl 3106 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 eventually agreed with Dad so he would stfu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 Working class lads.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10963 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Something that I've heard said on 6Music recently by some older hip-hop stars; Hip Hop is the new Rock and Roll. Dunno how I feel about it, I think I'm isolated from hip-hop's influence. Only really hear stuff like Kendrick Lamar or the classic stuff on 6Music and there's not a hip hop album I put on myself. Yet every month or so I see one of you lot putting some rap album on the "what I'm listening to" thread. Could Hip Hop affect social change? Most of it (to my isolated ears) seems to still be girls, green, glocks and ganja? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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