David Kelly 1260 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Bookies, pundits and "experts" disagree, but it's semantics.I noticed Merson (not that I would in any way consider him an expert) had us for a 2-1 defeat. He's actually been spot on with most of our last few games. Not that we've been difficult to predict like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10963 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 How can you objectively disagree that Newcastle under Carver are the worst team in the league? We are absolute dog shite man. Context mate. We're shit, but it wasn't unrealistically positive to expect a point at the team sitting on the foot of the table, when they'd already been relegated. You've jumped in halfway through this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10963 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 I noticed Merson (not that I would in any way consider him an expert) had us for a 2-1 defeat. He's actually been spot on with most of our last few games. Not that we've been difficult to predict like. He also said Ba would leave us to join Villa because they're a bigger club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1260 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 He also said Ba would leave us to join Villa because they're a bigger club.Like I said, our results are much easier to predict at the minute! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1260 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Context mate. We're shit, but it wasn't unrealistically positive to expect a point at the team sitting on the foot of the table, when they'd already been relegated. You've jumped in halfway through this. It wouldn't have been unrealistic to think it could happen, it was unrealistic to expect it to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5296 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Additional context: Carver had a public falling out with one of our players, the fans are turning on the club, we're riven with injuries, we tried to replace Carver and failed, he's lost the dressing room altogether and most importantly, none of the evidence from the previous games we'd played in the past few weeks suggested that we had any fight in us whatsoever. That said, none of this context makes us the worst team in the league. What makes us the worst team in the league is our recent form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10963 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5296 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammynb 3508 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 And boing said Zeebadee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21987 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Context mate. We're shit, but it wasn't unrealistically positive to expect a point at the team sitting on the foot of the table, when they'd already been relegated. You've jumped in halfway through this. Under Carvers, we have W2 D4 L13. And of course W0 D1 L9 in the last 10. Honestly don't know, have QPR been worse than this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10963 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Under Carvers, we have W2 D4 L13. And of course W0 D1 L9 in the last 10. Honestly don't know, have QPR been worse than this? We're bottom on Form, I'm pretty sure QPR were 19th before they met us. However I expected us to get a point thanks to their heads dropping. Given they're relegated because they've lacked cohesion and commitment all season I didn't expect (and think that's reasonable) them to put up the fight they did. When Riviere put us ahead I honestly thought we'd get something from the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 31197 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 QPR have been shit all season, at least we knew that we were capable of a performance. That's why I thought we'd beat them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1260 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 I know we were capable of a performance. Under Carver I don't think it's the same story! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 31197 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Well I was hoping they could do it in spite of him rather than because of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10963 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 QPR have been shit all season, at least we knew that we were capable of a performance. That's why I thought we'd beat them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5296 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 QPR have been shit all season, at least we knew that we were capable of a performance. That's why I thought we'd beat them. Fair enough, it was always possible that we'd suddenly let class show through. But you'd be hard pressed to argue that us getting any result other than a defeat here was 'likely' We're bottom on Form, I'm pretty sure QPR were 19th before they met us. However I expected us to get a point thanks to their heads dropping. Given they're relegated because they've lacked cohesion and commitment all season I didn't expect (and think that's reasonable) them to put up the fight they did. When Riviere put us ahead I honestly thought we'd get something from the game. They barely put up a fight at all - they were every bit as terrible as normal. We are just that bad at the moment that it didn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 31197 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 But you'd be hard pressed to argue that us getting any result other than a defeat here was 'likely' The bookies had an away win as the most likely result. Not that it tells you everything but it is an indication of how most impartial observers saw the game going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10963 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Fair enough, it was always possible that we'd suddenly let class show through. But you'd be hard pressed to argue that us getting any result other than a defeat here was 'likely' They barely put up a fight at all - they were every bit as terrible as normal. We are just that bad at the moment that it didn't matter. Disagree with that, I think they were much better in the 2nd half. Much more about them, they worked a lot harder. Almost like our goal freed them of the pressure of putting on a performance. I think we invited the pressure though. We've not been comfortable grinding out 1-0 wins since Pardew took over from Hughton. Which is probably why I like Ben Arfa so much, the rest of the team might be trying to shut up shop & failing, but the sexy bastard would be fannying about with the ball trying to score a wonder goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5296 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 The bookies had an away win as the most likely result. Not that it tells you everything but it is an indication of how most impartial observers saw the game going. I think this has been covered before, but betting patterns just reflect popular opinion don't they? 95% of the football community in this country would likely have expected us to put in a decent performance as we're playing for our skins and QPR are down. I understand that view for the impartial observer. It makes no sense when you look at actual form and the utter shambles that this club has been over the past few weeks though. The same people will likely think we'll beat West Ham next week. Do you think that's likely? I don't. I think we'll have our collective heads caved in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5296 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Disagree with that, I think they were much better in the 2nd half. Much more about them, they worked a lot harder. Almost like our goal freed them of the pressure of putting on a performance. I think we invited the pressure though. We've not been comfortable grinding out 1-0 wins since Pardew took over from Hughton. Which is probably why I like Ben Arfa so much, the rest of the team might be trying to shut up shop & failing, but the sexy bastard would be fannying about with the ball trying to score a wonder goal. I thought after their second goal they did very little of consequence, and that we spent 20 minutes trying to mount an effective attack before finally putting on some pressure at the end out of sheer desperation. So maybe they had a 10 minute period I guess. Agree on the 1-0 wins problem. To be honest, I can see where you're coming from on the 1-1 draw, I would have gone for that once upon a time. It's just that from a club management point of view now, you can clearly see that everything has gone to shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 31197 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 I think this has been covered before, but betting patterns just reflect popular opinion don't they? 95% of the football community in this country would likely have expected us to put in a decent performance as we're playing for our skins and QPR are down. I understand that view for the impartial observer. It makes no sense when you look at actual form and the utter shambles that this club has been over the past few weeks though. The same people will likely think we'll beat West Ham next week. Do you think that's likely? I don't. I think we'll have our collective heads caved in. Conversely, as fans watching our team in a bad run of form we're more inclined to think the worst going into any match. While the fans will have a more in depth view of the team's form the betting odds reflect a more objective view than most fans are capable of forming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5296 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 I can see what you're saying but there's something or a herd mentality to gambling don't you think? Which isn't hugely rational. Also, the evidence I've seen is that most fans of other clubs are hugely ignorant to any specific information about ours. It would be like if you looked at the stock market and bought shares in a company based on the wider market trend for its industry, without looking at the actual specifics of the company you're investing in. Some sense there, granted, as the industry might be reporting strong performance - but by no means an accurate way of measuring the company in question. That's what outside fans are doing with our club. This metaphor might be a bit laboured, but still. I think it's been debated quite well on here. I looked at all of it as objectively as I felt I could, took a large lead from the form table, an entirely non-subjective performance measure (albeit you can argue that it depends on the teams you're playing), looked at the disharmony within the team, the options we had available for the game, and felt that we'd lose. I wasn't caught up in some wild negative spin about the club. I'm totally at peace with relegation because I think it's the only way to make Ashley think twice about what he's doing. Therefore, I don't think it was an emotive decision for me to come to (that we'd lose). This is all pretty irrelevant I guess - as I said, I understand the thinking that we'd at least get a draw. I disagree with the idea that it was the objectively likely result, but it's all immaterial really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 22147 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 the fact that a team as crap and with as little to play for as qpr came from behind to beat us says it all. we're going to have to rely on man u doing us a favour because our lot can't be relied on even muster a point against west ham, another one with nowt to play for. i'm not sure a point is going to be enough either to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 I really shouldn't get involved here but this idea is just too stupid to ignore. You really think that Ashley is going to write off a £263m investment just for shits and giggles? He wanted £100m for it here, granted he didn't get it, but he was prepared to write off much of it. I just hope he dies and that's it me. Sunday win or lose is my last visit till he's gone. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1222962/Charles-Sale-Newcastle-owner-Mike-Ashley-dithers-80m-sale-Barry-Moat.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 31197 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 The £100m was for the sale of the club, it didn't cover the loan owed to Ashley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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