The Fish 10855 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Is player loyalty completely dead at the top levels? Is that partly why we're so removed from the modern players? I can't think of a single footballer who is staying at a club that he's better than. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 7025 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Why would they? Gone are the days of family clubs where you could have a personal relationship with the owner and manager and stick by your word. Clubs would sell players down the river for a profit so why should players turn down a bigger pay day to stay loyal? It's relative as well though I suppose, the likes of Sterling and Barkley looking to move somewhere else when they already have an offer of £100kpw on the table Is career suicide. See Adam Johnson, Scott Sinclair, Jack Rodwell etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10855 Posted April 2, 2015 Author Share Posted April 2, 2015 Hard to argue against getting your payday as early as possible. It's just disappointing when a young lad like Barkley, who hasn't exactly had a great season, manoeuvring himself for a transfer. Carroll and Kane show that if you play well a bigger club is still likely to come sniffing, whether you angle for the move or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADP 0 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I think Sterling is getting a bit of a rough time of it from the media tbh. Don't know why, perhaps because it looks like he is mugging off perennial media darlings Liverpool. 100k is obviously an astronomical amount. But I don't know if its about that like. Might have just had a look at the Liverpool squad, had a look at the fucking clip of Brenda, and thought 'am I going to reach my potential in this situation? Am I going to win significant trophies here?' Sad to see young players like Barkley and Berahino trying to GTFO as soon as possible after some good form. I just think that its in our footballing culture elevate promising players to 'definite world beaters' often before they hit their twenties. No wonder that they believe their own hype. It's happening with Kane now but seems like he has his feet on the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADP 0 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Personally, I thought loyalty was well and truly dead in football when (and how) we sold Carroll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30569 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Money aside, there are a limited number of clubs that have a decent chance of winning major silverware and an even smaller number that you can see challenging for the title over the next five years. If Harry Kane wants to win the league or the European Cup then he is more than likely going to have to leave Spurs to achieve that personal goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Not sure how loyal footballers have been since the 80s really. Le Tissier is the only striking example of someone who was a big fish in a small pond that turned down bigger ponds, isn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3887 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I don't understand the concept of loyalty in the employment arena. There is not one company, team or anything that would not fuck over their workers if it was to their benefit. SO why should a worker be loyal to an employer if that is not returned. It's capitalism, you sell your labour in return for money, that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17243 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Not sure how loyal footballers have been since the 80s really. Le Tissier is the only striking example of someone who was a big fish in a small pond that turned down bigger ponds, isn't he? Agreed. Since the abolition of the maximum wage and retention of players' registrations in the 60s loyalty has been a pretty redundant concept. And why not? It's a proffesion, not a hobby. Players pretty quickly stop being fans, the most glaring recent example of this is Rooney. I imagine he'd still describe himself as a Evertonian, and am sure deep down he is, but they stop thinking along these lines pretty quickly. Sir Bobby could've signed for us or Boro as a teenager but chose the bright lights of Fulham. That was in the early 50s... In his book Sir Bob said his old man didn't understand...that's the difference between a player and a fan.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10855 Posted April 2, 2015 Author Share Posted April 2, 2015 Personally, I thought loyalty was well and truly dead in football when (and how) we sold Carroll. I don't think Carroll was disloyal, I think he was put in a situation where the club that he had loyalty to, made it strikingly clear that they wanted him gone. He wouldn't have jumped if we hadn't pushed him to the edge. Not sure how loyal footballers have been since the 80s really. Le Tissier is the only striking example of someone who was a big fish in a small pond that turned down bigger ponds, isn't he? Shearer? Turned down Man Utd initially, but there were definitely interested parties throughout his NUFC career. I don't understand the concept of loyalty in the employment arena. There is not one company, team or anything that would not fuck over their workers if it was to their benefit. SO why should a worker be loyal to an employer if that is not returned. It's capitalism, you sell your labour in return for money, that's it. There should be similar contractual constraints on players who've made their way through the academy, as there is for employees that've been fast-tracked through a graduate scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADP 0 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I don't think Carroll was disloyal, I think he was put in a situation where the club that he had loyalty to, made it strikingly clear that they wanted him gone. He wouldn't have jumped if we hadn't pushed him to the edge. True enough, perhaps the Carroll situation may be more indicative of what has already been said: that the business ethic of football no longer has space for sentiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44811 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Yeah I still don't get people acting all put out over Carroll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADP 0 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Yeah I still don't get people acting all put out over Carroll. Because in a moment where player power appears to trump everything, it left a bitter taste in people's mouths to barely hear from him the whole situation, and to see a young local lad leave before we even had a chance to properly enjoy him in a toon top. I know that we have made a bit of a habit of selling our young/promising players to Liverpool stretching a long way back, but is it really a stretch of the imagination to think that some people found it difficult to accept that he left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44811 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Difficult to accept is fine. Pinning the blame on the player made very little sense though imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10855 Posted April 2, 2015 Author Share Posted April 2, 2015 Because in a moment where player power appears to trump everything, it left a bitter taste in people's mouths to barely hear from him the whole situation, and to see a young local lad leave before we even had a chance to properly enjoy him in a toon top. I know that we have made a bit of a habit of selling our young/promising players to Liverpool stretching a long way back, but is it really a stretch of the imagination to think that some people found it difficult to accept that he left? I'm angry he left too. I'm not aiming the blame at him though. Sure, he may have tried to get a move later on, but he'd played 1/2 a season in the Premier League and suddenly his home town club are pushing him out the door. If he was going on strike and running to the press I'd be fucking livid, but he didn't he was just a victim of the fact our owner is a capitalist pig-dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADP 0 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) Difficult to accept is fine. Pinning the blame on the player made very little sense though imo. Aye, and it would be unfair to do so. Like Fish said, would he have jumped if he hadn't been pushed? Just thought it was a moment where it became clear that the relationship between Newcastle/fans had changed, what with the lack of dialogue with the fans during and after the sale. It became quite clear that they did not feel like they had to explain to the fans anymore, that they did not feel the need to explain themselves with the Carroll money (I'm aware of the dodgy forum territory I'm going down here ) etc. Edited April 2, 2015 by ADP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howay 12496 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Aye I don't blame players for pushing for more money either tbh. If you're happy with your lot then I think that's another reason to stay, which is what I think Jonas stayed for after we went down and yet despite showing loyalty the club were horrific during one of the most difficult periods of his life. I think Sterling is getting pelters simply because it's Liverpool, they were all fine with numerous of our players talking about Arsenal, PSG etc, west brom players moaning but now it's Liverpool they think it's a disgrace. I don't think Sterling is being greedy either, I think he's comfortable knowing he will get mental money anywhere he goes but wants to be at a club that will win silverware. I hope he goes off and signs for one of the clubs that are challenging for titles for less than the 100k just to sicken them further. He's a Jamaican raised in London, he didn't move to Liverpool until he was about 15 or 16 anyway so no idea where they get off with this betrayal or he owes us business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17243 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I'm angry he left too. I'm not aiming the blame at him though. Sure, he may have tried to get a move later on, but he'd played 1/2 a season in the Premier League and suddenly his home town club are pushing him out the door. If he was going on strike and running to the press I'd be fucking livid, but he didn't he was just a victim of the fact our owner is a capitalist pig-dog. Also like Sterling he's got a greedy canniving agent desperate for a big pay day and to fuck with what's best for the player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10855 Posted April 2, 2015 Author Share Posted April 2, 2015 Aye I don't blame players for pushing for more money either tbh. If you're happy with your lot then I think that's another reason to stay, which is what I think Jonas stayed for after we went down and yet despite showing loyalty the club were horrific during one of the most difficult periods of his life. I think Sterling is getting pelters simply because it's Liverpool, they were all fine with numerous of our players talking about Arsenal, PSG etc, west brom players moaning but now it's Liverpool they think it's a disgrace. I don't think Sterling is being greedy either, I think he's comfortable knowing he will get mental money anywhere he goes but wants to be at a club that will win silverware. I hope he goes off and signs for one of the clubs that are challenging for titles for less than the 100k just to sicken them further. He's a Jamaican raised in London, he didn't move to Liverpool until he was about 15 or 16 anyway so no idea where they get off with this betrayal or he owes us business. The very attitude that might take Sterling away from Anfield is the same attitude that brought Lallana, Henderson, Allen, et al. They can't have their dole and spend it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howay 12496 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) Aye, spot on. Good dole explanation as well, if Phil Thompson said that on telly they might understand the situation. It's also interesting to see the contrast with Barkley pushing for a move to a bigger club as well, it's being seen and handled in the way it usually is a collective shrug from the media saying of course he want to do that while they speculate where he will end up. Edited April 2, 2015 by Howay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10855 Posted April 2, 2015 Author Share Posted April 2, 2015 Also like Sterling he's got a greedy canniving agent desperate for a big pay day and to fuck with what's best for the player. That's ok, the new deregulation of agents means that any bloke down the pub can spend £500 and become an agent. Which will surely flood the market with hundreds of qualified, capable, reputable agents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1244 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I don't understand the concept of loyalty in the employment arena. There is not one company, team or anything that would not fuck over their workers if it was to their benefit. SO why should a worker be loyal to an employer if that is not returned. It's capitalism, you sell your labour in return for money, that's it.This is spot on other than for those players who are supposed to support the team they play for. None of us support our employers but if our employers were Newcastle United I would like to think it would be a different scenario. Personally I can't think of anything I would have ever wanted to do than play football here and I would have accepted a lower wage to do so as long as I wasn't getting arse reamed. Even with the current cunt that's in charge I'd still want to be here more than I'd be bothered about winning things. I think Shearer sort of had that attitude but of course he was fantastically paid to do it. I doubt that would be the case now as Ashley would actively try to get him sold. But I can't see why anyone would expect any player who isn't a died in the wool supporter to show any more loyalty than is showed to him by his employer and we all know that's very little. Jonas's situation has just proved why we in particular are mental to expect anything other than a player jumping ship at the firt sign of a pay rise or a higher standard of football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10855 Posted April 2, 2015 Author Share Posted April 2, 2015 There must be something that happens at clubs that eliminates that sense of affiliation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneColdStephenIreland 74 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) I was shocked at people hating on Cabaye for wanting away to PSG. He doesn't have an affiliation towards Newcastle, he doesn't support us, he wasn't brought up here and he wasn't gonna win anything here, so I wasn't surprised he wanted out to a club battling for trophies and in Europe in his home nation. Yeah he went on strike but I would have done the same in the circumstances. (At a different club, not my supported team.) Edited April 2, 2015 by StoneColdStephenIreland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1244 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Probably getting paid a fortune at a ridiculously early age gives you a sense of entitlement that we don't have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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