The Fish 10849 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 I think you're mad if you think the managers I listed wouldn't leap at the chance to manage Newcastle United at the end of the season. For the foreign based lads it's an excellent chance to prove they can do it in the Premier League and in so doing put themselves in the frame for bigger jobs here & abroad. for Karanka & Howe it's a a chance to manage at a truly big club, catapulting them onto an entirely different plateau. The second point you make is hard to argue against, Ashley has a record of poor choices when it comes to the man in the big seat. Even Keegan was ill-conceived, given the nature of the way Ashley conducts his business. That said I am happy to wait & see & hope, rather than expect misery to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimaad22 4156 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 That was the point I think. I was addressing Dr. Gloom. Your post beat mine by a few seconds apparently. I ought to use the quote function more So the point was, Ashely's not looking at any of the names you mentioned even though he could/should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21912 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) I think you're mad if you think the managers I listed wouldn't leap at the chance to manage Newcastle United at the end of the season. For the foreign based lads it's an excellent chance to prove they can do it in the Premier League and in so doing put themselves in the frame for bigger jobs here & abroad. for Karanka & Howe it's a a chance to manage at a truly big club, catapulting them onto an entirely different plateau. The second point you make is hard to argue against, Ashley has a record of poor choices when it comes to the man in the big seat. Even Keegan was ill-conceived, given the nature of the way Ashley conducts his business. That said I am happy to wait & see & hope, rather than expect misery to follow. don't get me wrong like, i hope ashley doesn't fuck it up as per usual. i just don't expect him to. i don't see any half decent manager fancying us because the role of newcastle manager as it stands is not to manage at all - it's simply head coach and to be the fall guy for the regime. pardew survived for so long because he was a yes man. he had zero influence on the players we bought or when they were sold. for all the potential we have, the appeal of managing on the premier league stage and in front of big crowds, any candidate will have to accept working for an owner with zero ambition. so i think we can pretty much rule out anyone with a decent future ahead of them. not that ashley would be talking to that type anyway. Edited January 2, 2015 by Dr Gloom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimaad22 4156 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Its the same case as with players, the best we can hope for is someone relatively unknown from the continent manages to shine and lead us to a couple of decent years before moving on to bigger things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10849 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Don't a lot of continental coaches work under the same conditions? De Boer at Ajax certainly does; players sold under him etc. Just thinking; Could it be that the ambition thing may be over stated? Ashley says Top10 is a minimum (yet permitted Pardew to twice fail to meet it) and won't provide the additional funds to make a Europa League or Cup run easier. This doesn''t mean he'd sack a manager who got us to the FA Cup final if we also finished 16th. Ashley isn't Anti-winning things, he's just pro-top 10 as a singular priority.. He'd be delighted if a cheap manager who worked within the restrictions brought silverware to Newcastle United. Of course he would. He won't do anything to his approach that would make that unlikely scenario happen. It's not (as is suggested) that Ashley wants Newcastle to be bereft of silveware, or finish outside Europa League spot. It's just that he isn't going to change approach to make it more likely that this could happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimaad22 4156 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Aye, the whole idea that since Ashley's shite, its ok for everyone below him to be shite is silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monroe Transfer 0 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 So the point was, Ashely's not looking at any of the names you mentioned even though he could/should. How do you know he's not left it up to Carr and Charnley to find a head coach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21912 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 It's not (as is suggested) that Ashley wants Newcastle to be bereft of silveware, or finish outside Europa League spot. It's just that he isn't going to change approach to make it more likely that this could happen. the recent fan forum minutes from suggest otherwise: Phil Patterson – “Realistically, the cups are about the only chance of silverware, but year in year out we don't seem to target one, why not? The board said that we utilise the cup competitions to secure match experience for the wider squad. The club is also mindful of injuries following last season’s Europa League. Our primary aim and focus has to be the Premier League and we don't want to jeopardise that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimaad22 4156 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) How do you know he's not left it up to Carr and Charnley to find a head coach? Because they could probably find someone decent? Edited January 2, 2015 by aimaad22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10849 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 the recent fan forum minutes from suggest otherwise: Phil Patterson – “Realistically, the cups are about the only chance of silverware, but year in year out we don't seem to target one, why not? The board said that we utilise the cup competitions to secure match experience for the wider squad. The club is also mindful of injuries following last season’s Europa League. Our primary aim and focus has to be the Premier League and we don't want to jeopardise that. That's not the same as saying success in the competitions will be punished. It's saying that those competitions will not be pursued at the expense of league survival. Yet, Pardew twice flirted with relegation, without competing in the cups what so ever, so I doubt the head coach fielding a strong team in the cups and finishing 12th (which is entirely reasonable) would bring the ire of the owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17241 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Season could be over at ten to five tomorrow. Can see Carver having the same "difficulties with motivation" that his predecessor had... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimaad22 4156 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Motivation. Anyone notice Tiote's reaction when Colback scored? Hardly moved. His heart's not here and its evident from the way he's been playing as well. He's most probably not the only one either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21912 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 That's not the same as saying success in the competitions will be punished. It's saying that those competitions will not be pursued at the expense of league survival. Yet, Pardew twice flirted with relegation, without competing in the cups what so ever, so I doubt the head coach fielding a strong team in the cups and finishing 12th (which is entirely reasonable) would bring the ire of the owner. i'm not even sure what any of that means. all i will say is keep dreaming if you think ashley is going to appoint a good manager, or if you think anyone half decent will want to work for the cunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10849 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 You seem to suggest that success will be punished/not tolerated. That's bollocks. Loads of "half-decent" managers will want to be Newcastle United manager because we remain a big club, in the Premier League, who get a great deal of national attention and who's fans are renowned. As I've said before a young continental coach will happily join us, even under Ashley's restrictions. Will Ashley be seeking that kind of manager? I dunno. We've been heavily linked with both Galtier and De Boer, but the journalists' insight isn't up to much. But to categorically rule out the possibility is madness. You seem to think Ashley & his cronies will go out of their way to find a bad manager, despite finishing Top Ten in the league being their "minimal" requirement. How do you marry these two things? They'll definitely be shit, but they'll definitely get us 10th? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17241 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 i'm not even sure what any of that means. all i will say is keep dreaming if you think ashley is going to appoint a good manager, or if you think anyone half decent will want to work for the cunt. Cheer up Gloom, it could be schteeve! http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/Derby-County-Steve-McClaren-bookies-favourite/story-25796967-detail/story.html? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JawD 99 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 if that was Carver's audition, he failed it..... the pre match waffle about Sir Bobby watching over us was toe-curlingly embarrassing & the kind of guff Pardew would have been (rightly) savaged for. i've no complaints about the starting XI & lay the blame for the opener squarely on Alnwick, who is so nervous he couldn't take charge of an easy defensive situation by staying on his line & calling for a head back from Dummett, who gets to look stupid because of Alnwick's hesitancy. mind alnwick's attempt for the third was simply atrocious. Riviere was unlucky three times; the early header, the scuffed sidefoot & the last play of the half that was reminiscent of Ayoze's role in the 3rd; taking him off for Armstrong was a nonsense, as Armstrong's only touch of the ball seemed to be the inadvertent way he set up Sissoko (only realised this later as was in Milburn Paddock at Leazes). this was a dismal, wasted substitution. Again Pardew would have been slated for it. The correct change was Gouffran off for Cabella or, at a pinch, Armstrong. Most of the second half was played terribly on the backfoot with the midfield 3 (Gouffran was utterly anonymous & so I won't mention him) who were so impressive on sunday & in the first half, going all to hell. Cissoko saw nothing of the ball, Colback was harried whenever in possession & Tiote was an utter liability. As Armstrong could do nothing about holding the ball up, it kept coming back. Taylor's injury was unfortunate, but if Carver doesn't rate williamson, who not bring Dummett inside & Haidara on at left back? bringing Haidara on for Gouffran was another nonsensical change. A satisfactory first half, when we ought to have been 2 ahead at least & a deplorable second when we were at least 3 goals worse means that a point is a fair result against a spirited, limited, well-drilled side, but losing the lead 3 times against Burnley is unacceptable. Colo was poor for the 2nd goal - why was he at right back & not in the centre; he overplayed a couple of times as well..... so, the only positive i can take is Carver won't get the job full time, which i think he would have done until the end of the season if we'd hung on. Managed to get to the game with the bairn and this is pretty much spot on. Was a good first half and it was one of the best games I've seen Riviere have. He had good movement and was getting in some good positions. She he didnt score but for a good save from their keeper and a good chance but the ball seemed to get under his feet. Very odd to take him off and Armstrong then had something like 5 touches the rest of the game. Dummett played well in the centre a month ago or so, so it seemed obvious to push him inside and Haidara has been solid at LB before so it seemed an easy decision. Especially when at the time we were 3-2 up and needed to protect the lead in a half when we were constantly losing possession. Alnwick. Well, wasnt all down to him but certainly that last goal he should have got down at pushed it around the post but he didnt seem to get down quick enough or have the strength to protect and his hands flapped away. Really poor second half but credit to Burnley for pushing us. On Carver, I expect him to stay until the summer. It gives Ashley a good chance to see what he can do as he would be the perfect option for him. He is desperate for the role and would accept however MA wants it structured. A new person would likely ask for more things their way. He'll also be cheap. He doesnt need him to be able to push the club on, just maintain that mid table float. Be interesting to see the next few games and see if he changes anything tactically, injuries allowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JawD 99 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Cheer up Gloom, it could be schteeve! http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/Derby-County-Steve-McClaren-bookies-favourite/story-25796967-detail/story.html? Looking back he likes people he knows around him. With such this role needing to work with him I'll be suprised if he brings an outsider in. In my opinion he has to, to freshen things up and would likely need to be from Europe, someone who would accept the set up. But, for MA I think Carver / Stone is an easy, cheap and potentially viable option that ticks his boxes. Hope I'm wrong as it smacks of no ombition (which we know isnt there anyway, not football success anyway) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17241 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Yeah it's Carver till the summer I think.....if we're safe by the end of February it could be carver a lot longer.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21912 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 You seem to suggest that success will be punished/not tolerated. That's bollocks. do i? i think what i'm saying is most half decent managers won't fancy working for us because the lack of control over player dealings. and that we shouldn't get our hopes up because ashley is unlikely to appoint a good manager anyway. we're talking about the man who thought giving kinnear two cracks of the whip was a good idea, remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21912 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Cheer up Gloom, it could be schteeve! http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/Derby-County-Steve-McClaren-bookies-favourite/story-25796967-detail/story.html? he's at the upper end of what we could hope for. i would be quite happy with him actually. didn't he win the dutch title with a twente? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17241 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 he's at the upper end of what we could hope for. i would be quite happy with him actually. didn't he win the dutch title with a twente? Yeah I certainly wouldn't say complain too much. Was round a mates house on Boxing Day and there was a Derby lad there and he said great things about him. Took Clough's half decent but under motivated side and basically they'd have pissed promotion if they'd even had an average start to the season. Makes you think what he could do if he came here this month... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21912 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Yeah I certainly wouldn't say complain too much. Was round a mates house on Boxing Day and there was a Derby lad there and he said great things about him. Took Clough's half decent but under motivated side and basically they'd have pissed promotion if they'd even had an average start to the season. Makes you think what he could do if he came here this month... he's probably remembered a bit harshly as the wally in the brolly. has done a decent job at most clubs he's managed, i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneColdStephenIreland 74 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Barring Chelsea and City coming up, our other games are certainly winnable for any manager that could come in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 33121 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 We couldn't beat Burnley.Twice. Nor Hull. Nor Palace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneColdStephenIreland 74 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 They are winnable games though, if we aren't gonna look to win them then we'll beat no one else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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