The Fish 10857 Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 would you prefer poor style of football but managing a 7th place finish sneaking into the Europa league or great attacking play but poor at the back resulting in a 10th place finishI'll answer, but there are few things I'll say after that are important. I'd rather the latter of those two options. Now, first, the question you asked is loaded; playing bad football isn't a guarantee of 7th, Secondly, Playing a poor style of football is more than likely going to get you tenth rather than 7th, proven by our poor football & lower than 7th finishes in all but 1 season under Pardew. Finally, What's the point in finishing 7th and sneaking a Europa spot if the man charged with fielding the team, choosing the tactics, motivating the players & representing my club with honour is demonstrably incapable of any of those things? Pardew is a charlatan who was in the football wastelands before his mate gave him a job, he's now got himself into a position where relegation isn't his fault (damage was done before I got 'ere guv, no fret or nuffink), the fans immediately love him and if he keeps them up he can turn them into a clogging yo-yo team to nobody's great surprise. It's horrifying to me that so many fans are content to accept Ashley & Pardew's lowered expectations. No, scrap that, not lowered expectations, lowered hope. We don't expect silverware, high league position, superstar players beguiling us with quicksilver football, we just hope for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimaad22 4156 Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 would you prefer poor style of football but managing a 7th place finish sneaking into the Europa league or great attacking play but poor at the back resulting in a 10th place finish Sneaking into cups would have meaning if we actually took them seriously. And like Fish says, you're making a massive assumption there. There's just no correlation there. We nearly got relegated a couple of years back remember. We're the 4th worst team in the league in 2014 with the worst goal difference. Its a defeatist argument anyway. If you want something better you will always have to take risks. I want to see someone at the helm who knows what the club is about. Someone's who's passionate, takes risks and truly believes this club could be achieving more than it is. If we're playing in a bloody cup quarter final, I want someone who'll remember just how long nearly 50 years is and that he's a couple of games away from making history, not thinking about the next league game and wondering if a serious push could mean we finish 12th instead of 10th. At the very least someone honest, who doesnt make you puke everytime you see him on the tele or read about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salsaman7 0 Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 I'll answer, but there are few things I'll say after that are important. I'd rather the latter of those two options. Now, first, the question you asked is loaded; playing bad football isn't a guarantee of 7th, Secondly, Playing a poor style of football is more than likely going to get you tenth rather than 7th, proven by our poor football & lower than 7th finishes in all but 1 season under Pardew. Finally, What's the point in finishing 7th and sneaking a Europa spot if the man charged with fielding the team, choosing the tactics, motivating the players & representing my club with honour is demonstrably incapable of any of those things? Pardew is a charlatan who was in the football wastelands before his mate gave him a job, he's now got himself into a position where relegation isn't his fault (damage was done before I got 'ere guv, no fret or nuffink), the fans immediately love him and if he keeps them up he can turn them into a clogging yo-yo team to nobody's great surprise. It's horrifying to me that so many fans are content to accept Ashley & Pardew's lowered expectations. No, scrap that, not lowered expectations, lowered hope. We don't expect silverware, high league position, superstar players beguiling us with quicksilver football, we just hope for it. this scenario doesnt involve pardew or any other manager. it was a choice between playing good football or getting into europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 this scenario doesnt involve pardew or any other manager. it was a choice between playing good football or getting into europe The two are not mutually exclusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44883 Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Do people not want winning football? The idea that you can be consistently crap and come 7th doesn't compute with me. Losing football is not good football because nobody enjoys losing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salsaman7 0 Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 the point i am trying to make is..... 1) poor (boring) football can grind out results 1-0 or get a draw when we would usually get beat getting earning a 7th place finish by getting points we would usually miss out on Flip side 2) play good (entertaining) football but get beat 4-3 or 3-2 in games we should be winning or drawing dropping points trying to score more goals instead of wrapping the game up. ive seen games where we have been 1-0 up chase a second goal but end up drawing 1-1. Thus finishing 11th Which one would you pick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 3) Playing shite football and losing 4-0 to teams you should be beating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 the point i am trying to make is..... 1) poor (boring) football can grind out results 1-0 or get a draw when we would usually get beat getting earning a 7th place finish by getting points we would usually miss out on Flip side 2) play good (entertaining) football but get beat 4-3 or 3-2 in games we should be winning or drawing dropping points trying to score more goals instead of wrapping the game up. ive seen games where we have been 1-0 up chase a second goal but end up drawing 1-1. Thus finishing 11th Which one would you pick? Or how about these two options: 1. playing bad football and consistently getting bad results, including capitulating more often than is reasonable. or 2. Playing good football and winning games, getting a higher league position, better players, better experiences as a result? There are few guarantees in football, but one surely must be that bad football brings less success than the good stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salsaman7 0 Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 Or how about these two options: 1. playing bad football and consistently getting bad results, including capitulating more often than is reasonable. or 2. Playing good football and winning games, getting a higher league position, better players, better experiences as a result? There are few guarantees in football, but one surely must be that bad football brings less success than the good stuff? I'd pick number 2 Also i never said bad i said poor as in poor entertainment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44883 Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Aye you're constructing a nonsense choice Salsa. Is your name related to a love of Latin dance btw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 I'd pick number 2 Also i never said bad i said poor as in poor entertainment Ok, put it this way, list for me the successful football teams that are consistently playing football that doesn''t entertain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Can't believe this thread got to 6 pages when the argument can be settled in literally one word - Gouffran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salsaman7 0 Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 Ok, put it this way, list for me the successful football teams that are consistently playing football that doesn''t entertain? Everton under moyes Palace and stoke under Pulis Bolton under Big sam Newcastle under Houghton Villa under O'neill Effective football - not entertaining Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salsaman7 0 Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 Can't believe this thread got to 6 pages when the argument can be settled in literally one word - Gouffran. mate get real - hes probably one of our best players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Everton under moyes Palace and stoke under Pulis Bolton under Big sam Newcastle under Houghton Villa under O'neill Effective football - not entertaining In what way are any of those teams successful, you lunatic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 mate get real - hes probably one of our best players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Also, I enjoyed pretty much every game under Hughton! Allardyce had, Okocha, Djorkaef, amongst others, they played some decent stuff when they were able to afford those inflated wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 mate get real - hes probably one of our best players Just saw this, what does Gouffran do for you to make such an odd assertion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salsaman7 0 Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 look at the stature of the clubs and what they achieved playing effective football. everton finished 4th and were never in any danger of getting relegated, didnt spend much money either, palace should have been relegated but stayed up, bolton finished 8th and looked like a solid team, villa finished 6th twice playing on the counter, newcastle punted the ball up to carroll and nolan under houghton and it worked. effective football gets results! we are never going to be a team that plays entertaining football under Ashley so there is no point trying and failing. Would be better off getting a down to earth manager that knows the game and can set the team out to play an effective game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 look at the stature of the clubs and what they achieved playing effective football. everton finished 4th and were never in any danger of getting relegated, didnt spend much money either, palace should have been relegated but stayed up, bolton finished 8th and looked like a solid team, villa finished 6th twice playing on the counter, newcastle punted the ball up to carroll and nolan under houghton and it worked. effective football gets results! we are never going to be a team that plays entertaining football under Ashley so there is no point trying and failing. Would be better off getting a down to earth manager that knows the game and can set the team out to play an effective game So the crux of your argument is "Know your place"? We should be happy with shit football and survival?! Give over man, that's mental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salsaman7 0 Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 Just saw this, what does Gouffran do for you to make such an odd assertion. Makes the fish bite. thats what it does He's a grafter - i like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Makes the fish bite. thats what it does He's a grafter - i like that. God, really? Grafters. Fuck me how dreary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salsaman7 0 Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 So the crux of your argument is "Know your place"? We should be happy with shit football and survival?! Give over man, that's mental. That is our place under Ashley. Newcastle should aim to finish between 7th and 12th every season under MA. I never said be happy with it. Under the restrictions this is it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 That is our place under Ashley. Newcastle should aim to finish between 7th and 12th every season under MA. I never said be happy with it. Under the restrictions this is it No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salsaman7 0 Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 No. yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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