PaddockLad 17262 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 25-1 to be relegated, 11-8 to finish in the top 10. Ever seen a skint bookie csd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Just because we may have met with him with the intention of discussing the role seriously, doesn't mean the discussions came to anything. Just because he appeared to be a good fit, doesn't mean that when we laid out the constraints he would be working under, he didn't say thanks but no thanks. If that's was the case then the others (however well fitting they may look on paper) may in reality be just as impossible as those who I mentioned for effect. The point I was getting at was that trophyshy wasn't being irrational for saying that while we may have sounded these guys out, they may have all told us they weren't interested. If that's the case we either have to revise our ideas of what the job is or who would take it. If it's the latter than Carver might have been a reasonable choice. Personally I do believe that there is a realistic possibility of getting these guys for exactly the reasons you've said. But that doesn't mean it's not sensible to have concerns. I'm not talking about concern, I'm talking about people categorically stating we'll never get a good coach. I'd also say the concerns are more about a general displeasure at Ashley's NUFC, rather than a frank assessment of the reality of the situation. If, like you admit, signing one of these coaches is a realistic outcome, why has there been such a furore? The situation we're in at the minute lends credence to the notion that we're looking to employ a Head Coach, who is used to the kinds of restrictions Ashley's NUFC enforces, that will be capable of meeting the targets set by Ashley's cohorts & (in my opinion) will see Newcastle as, at the very least, a stepping stone to a bigger gig. Nothing about this current situation says that we're to be stuck with Carver or Sherwood or the like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3894 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 25-1 to be relegated, 11-8 to finish in the top 10. Ever seen a skint bookie csd? Mon Mone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I give up. The Fish had the right idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubSpinDoctor 0 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Nothing about this current situation says that we're to be stuck with Carver or Sherwood or the like. Apart from the fact that we're stuck with Carver. Call a spade a spade ffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21924 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Why did they hold meetings with candidates and then defer deciding until the summer? Probably because the targets they were after (Tuchel, De Boer, Garde, McClaren) are all currently unavailable for one reason or another and rather than employ a Head Coach they don't want and risk needing to replace him in 6 months anyway, they'd stick with someone who's already at the club and who they're confident will do enough to keep Newcastle in the Premier League. Come the summer, they'll address the Head Coach position. why are you so sure of this? i'm struggling to fathom why you are so confident we will get a manager of the calibre of those listed above, when you look at the recent moves the club has made. most of us have given up trying to predict what ashley is going to do next. just look at the evidence - sacking a manager that was doing well (hughton), appointing one that no one wanted (pardew), hiring a drunken old fossil as director of football (kinnear), keeping pardew on when most other chairmen would have sacked him. none of this points to us getting one of the alleged "targets" in. it seems more likely that carver will get the gig full time, or we'll bring in someone no one wants. i'll be happy to be proven wrong, i just don't think it's unreasonable to assume most on here don't share your optimism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubSpinDoctor 0 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Appointing Hughton in the first place was a pretty ridiculous thing at the time too. Even if it did work out okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21924 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Appointing Hughton in the first place was a pretty ridiculous thing at the time too. Even if it did work out okay. right. when was the last time he appointed someone we were all behind? probably keegan. obviously we all backed shearer but the move to get him in was a desperate after the jfk debacle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30611 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Club doing all they can to get fans to cancel those fixed price deals ahead of a top class appointment and big summer spending. ST prices frozen for next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubSpinDoctor 0 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Anybody on here buying one? Or renewing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 why are you so sure of this? i'm struggling to fathom why you are so confident we will get a manager of the calibre of those listed above, when you look at the recent moves the club has made. most of us have given up trying to predict what ashley is going to do next. just look at the evidence - sacking a manager that was doing well (hughton), appointing one that no one wanted (pardew), hiring a drunken old fossil as director of football (kinnear), keeping pardew on when most other chairmen would have sacked him. none of this points to us getting one of the alleged "targets" in. it seems more likely that carver will get the gig full time, or we'll bring in someone no one wants. i'll be happy to be proven wrong, i just don't think it's unreasonable to assume most on here don't share your optimism. I'll try and address each of those points, but don't take my explanation as fact or as approval. Ashley binned off Hughton to install Pardew because the plan was to operate NUFC as a stepping stone with a Head Coach rather than a manager. Ashley knew Pardew would meekly acquiesce and Ashley had confidence that Pardew would keep us as a Premier League side. Ashley was right. Ashley appointed Kinnear for a couple of reasons, 1) he was a mate, 2) Kinnear is an old manager and one would be allowed to assume he would have a good contact book. Ashley got this wrong. I honestly believe the "crunch talks" Ashley & Pardew had were legit. I truly believe that if Pardew had failed to keep us up, or had even just failed convince MA that he could keep us up and would perform to a higher standard this year, he'd have gone. I think it was loyalty from Ashley. Now you've taken a few things in isolation and I'd beg your indulgence while I reply with some of my own, for balance. He hired Graham Carr who has pulled in some quality players for bargain basement prices. Carr is now partly responsible for finding a new Head Coach, with his track record of matching players to this league, I have faith he'd be able to do the same for coaches. He is taking the progressive step of installing a Head Coach. This is a good thing imo as we've already got the scouting thing down, but the footballing side of things is currently lacking. The things you mentioned aren't all recent. Football isn't stagnant. As HF has repeatedly said, He may have come with one idea, then changed that idea after relegation, then changed again after 5th and maybe again. I wouldn't be surprised if he looked at the success of that season and boiled it down to it's vital elements. We performed better in the league that year because or good fortune & excellent recruitment, not excellent management. It's possible to depend on recreating excellent recruitment and it's possible to improve management, both for minimal changes in price... so why wouldn't he do that again? I think we'll get a better class of coach because I think it won't affect the bottom line and we're as attractive to foreign coaches of this level as we are to foreign players of this level. I'd be hugely surprised if we ended up with Carver full time as it doesn't reflect recent decisions made by the club at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophyshy 7083 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) Carr having good contacts and the PL being attractive to foreign coaches. I think it's possible (probable even) we'll get someone with a decent rep, willing to work within the constraints and who'll (obviously) see us as a stepping stone to bigger and better things. Hardly outlandish given it's happened with a couple of top class players we've had recently. No not outlandish, and Pardew has proven there's profit to be had even from the touchline. I think it's possible, yes. Given past decisions and the questionable truths in the present you can either view proceedings neutrally, with despair or with hope. I think it takes impressive resolve (this is the politest word I can muster) to even manage neutral, never mind hope. As I've stated previously, I have zero hope left for the club anyway. I come on this board for a bit of idle banter and a break from work. And to stir up Fish, obviously. Edited January 28, 2015 by trophyshy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 When you say "zero hope" what is it that you mean, exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophyshy 7083 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 When you say "zero hope" what is it that you mean, exactly? Until Ashley is gone I have no hope of progress as a competitive club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Until Ashley is gone I have no hope of progress as a competitive club. I'm not being an arse when I ask the following. Would you take improved football as evidence of progress? When you say progress must it be league position or cup progress? (again not being a dick, just clarifying) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophyshy 7083 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Ambition is a better word than progress. I have no hope that we will show ambition to compete. Better football would be nice, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 There's a tiny piece of me that thinks Ashley has been changing course in an oil tanker. That once we've a new coach our progress will still be slow and resistant to change, but it will be progress. That's my hope. I don't think it's an unreasonable nor an irrational hope. My expectation is that Ashley will get us as a boring stable mid-table club and look to sell us close to his (inflated) valuation. I have no timeframe for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1245 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I'm not talking about concern, I'm talking about people categorically stating we'll never get a good coach. I'd also say the concerns are more about a general displeasure at Ashley's NUFC, rather than a frank assessment of the reality of the situation. If, like you admit, signing one of these coaches is a realistic outcome, why has there been such a furore? The situation we're in at the minute lends credence to the notion that we're looking to employ a Head Coach, who is used to the kinds of restrictions Ashley's NUFC enforces, that will be capable of meeting the targets set by Ashley's cohorts & (in my opinion) will see Newcastle as, at the very least, a stepping stone to a bigger gig. Nothing about this current situation says that we're to be stuck with Carver or Sherwood or the like. To be honest there's at least as much about the current situation that suggests we'll appoint someone shit as there is suggesting we'll appoint someone decent. In the shite camp there's the fact the Ashley's managerial (and you can include Cheif Exec and DOF in with that) appointments so far have been shite. The fact that Carver has an awful record as a manager yet has been put in charge for the rest of the season. There's also the suggestion that the likes of Bruce have been amongst the favourites (yes he ruled himself out immediately but he's most likely available in the summer. Who's to say it's not him we're waiting for?). On the positive there's the suggestion that we've been linked to the likes of Garde, FDB, Tuchel, Gaultier which suggests we're looking at a more progressive type of foreign coach. There's the suggestion that we went as far as speaking to Garde and the fact that we haven't just appointed a stop gap suggests that we might actually be taking our time and waiting for the right man to become available (of course if this is the case then we are gambling that Carver can keep us in the league so that we're still an attractive option for this person come the summer). It seems to me that those of us who aren't in the positive camp have a bit more fact in our corner than you in the positive camp do. I don't blame you for trying to be positive, that's what football's all about. But personally I've been shat on enough from the fat cunt that I'm going to need something a lot more substantial before I can be positive about this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubSpinDoctor 0 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Changing course Our team has gotten progressively worse since we finished 5th. For perspective: Keegan - hadn't managed anyone for years Kinnear - hadn't managed anyone for years Shearer - hadn't managed anyone Hughton - hadn't managed anyone Pardew Carver - hadn't managed anyone Yet some think Ashley has the nous to go out and get a quality, experienced head coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Well for a start I'd dismiss Bruce out of hand. He's a manager, not a head coach, the people stating he's a favourite are bookies, tabloids and Lee Ryder. I'm not 100% but Nobody at the club has mentioned him have they? You say Ashley's appointments have been shite but is Charnley a shit Chief Exec? Or is he just the face of a regime we don't like? I don't think facts are on anyone's side because it's all conjecture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1245 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Well for a start I'd dismiss Bruce out of hand. He's a manager, not a head coach, the people stating he's a favourite are bookies, tabloids and Lee Ryder. I'm not 100% but Nobody at the club has mentioned him have they? You say Ashley's appointments have been shite but is Charnley a shit Chief Exec? Or is he just the face of a regime we don't like? I don't think facts are on anyone's side because it's all conjecture. Has anyone at the club mentioned any potential candidate at all? If not why should we give any less credence to Bruce (who's probably more akin to previous appointment than the others we are hoping for) than the others? Charnley (as I said yesterday) has been in charge while we seem to have completely fucked up with Darlow. He's openly admitted we had no contingency in place for if we needed a new manager. He's been in charge while we fucked about with the deal for Mbiwa so we didn't have time in the summer to replace him and he's failled to replace him in this window when we've lost another player in that position to injury. I take all of this as him being shite at his job. But then again no one in the right mind would have appointed someone of his experience into such a role if they gave a fuck about wanting the best man for the job. We can agree that the appointments of at least Kinnear (twice), Shearer, Keegan and Pardew were shit (for varying reasons) can't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1245 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I see Dave Watson's helping out with the first team now too. Have the juniors been doing anything of note during his time with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubSpinDoctor 0 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 For more perspective Llambias: Had never ran a football club Kinnear: Had never been a director of football Wise: Had never been a director of football Charnley: Had never ran a football club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophyshy 7083 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/newcastle-united-managerial-situation-what-8528647 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21924 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I think we'll get a better class of coach because I think it won't affect the bottom line and we're as attractive to foreign coaches of this level as we are to foreign players of this level. I'd be hugely surprised if we ended up with Carver full time as it doesn't reflect recent decisions made by the club at all. i admire you for your continued faith in your convictions, but i'm afraid i'm not convinced. i will very happy if you're right and i'm wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now