Rayvin 5223 Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Â On the other hand, leftist media outlets and their cohorts do have political and cultural relativist positions to protect, and, are therefore, duty bound to claim ISIS are fundamentally driven by political grievance. Â Â I agree with this. Part of the reason it's so difficult to come to a unified perspective on these matters is that there are so many forces with competing narratives at play. I actually don't really understand why the authoritarian left (I heard these people labelled as the Ctrl-Left as opposed to the Alt-Right which I think is fantastic and will now start using) is so wedded to Islam. It's a regressive, right wing ideology. It's a million miles away from their position on most other factors. Â I've no problem with giving Muslims or even extremists a fair hearing to understand their motivations, but the Ctrl-Left's dedication to the cause on that front is beyond concerning and at best just muddies the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorthernsoul 1221 Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Zurich.  http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/zurich-shooting-latest-islamic-centre-three-people-shot-injured-police-a7485111.html  Ankara.  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/19/russian-ambassador-to-turkey-wounded-in-ankara-shooting-attack   Berlin.  http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/berlin-christmas-market-live-updates-lorry-deadly-killing-police-terror-attack-latest-a7485361.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 42465 Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 It's all Renton's fault, the massive fucking racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jill 0 Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Off to Berlin today... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Be vigilant around any Christmas markets, seems to be the advice. The US has said as much to its citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15552 Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Zurich.  http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/zurich-shooting-latest-islamic-centre-three-people-shot-injured-police-a7485111.html  Ankara.  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/19/russian-ambassador-to-turkey-wounded-in-ankara-shooting-attack   Berlin.  http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/berlin-christmas-market-live-updates-lorry-deadly-killing-police-terror-attack-latest-a7485361.html  Everybody talk about... pop muzik  You'll be grand Jill, if anything the main issue will be overcrowding as all the too-cool-for-school locals come out to support the Christmas markets whereas normally they'd leave that kind of thing to the tourists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 It's the only time of year Germans willfully eat toxic food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17286 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Chief suspect in the Berlin attack shot dead by police in Milan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35100 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Left his id papers in the truck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21959 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Hope the cunt misses out on his virgins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35100 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Hope he ends up with the ones as portrayed on Family Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3900 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 The analogy doesn't extend to what they think of themselves. I don't care what ISIS 'think of themselves'. I don't think there's much value at all in listening to them on that topic. Â I care what the hierarchy of their motivations are, and that's a totally different question. Every individual and group thinks they are a force for good in the world. Evil villains are a fantasy from children's comic books. So why ask? I'm interested in, and we're talking about, motivations. Â You've moved the analogy past its useful point. Analogies are to simplify not explain entirely. Taking an analogy past it's point of usefulness just adds complexity back into the discussion to no gain. Â Anyway, in the past there has been much debate about ISIS's motivations being either primarily political or primarily religious in the media. Then ISIS published 'Why We Hate You' to clarify their position. Â Pretty simple really. It's not about what they think of themselves. It's about why they act the way they do. Â FWIW, I'd listen to Glen and decide if his motivations were aligned with his actions. In Glen's case I think he'd be shown to be dishonest in his motivations as he has been shown to be by his actions. In the case of ISIS, they have no reason to lie about the hierarchy of their motivations and fundamentally they are honest in their intentions (their intentions are abhorrent, but so were Muhammad's so that's a plus for them, I guess). Â You see getting someone's 'biggest critic' doesn't get you a balanced view. If Harris' biggest critic were listened to (Greenwald), he'd have you believe Harris is a racist, homophobic, genocidal, Jew hating Jew, bigot. There's no value in listening to such nonsense. Â I listen to claims and their relationship to reality, not vitriol and politically motivated bullshit from the Guardian on ISIS or Glen Greenwald on anything. Â There's no basis for not believing ISIS's claims on their motivations. They're not incapable of honesty, especially when they have nothing to gain or no other reason to lie. Â On the other hand, leftist media outlets and their cohorts do have political and cultural relativist positions to protect, and, are therefore, duty bound to claim ISIS are fundamentally driven by political grievance. Â But what do I know, I'm just a bigot. Â You say Muhammed's intentions were abhorrent, what do you mean by this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3900 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Â Have you got a point (you can take that existentially if you want) or are you just going to sit smiling while you wank yourself off into a pair of your mums knickers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21959 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Mohammed was a dick - he tried to brainwash people with mumbo jumbo nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Have you got a point (you can take that existentially if you want) or are you just going to sit smiling while you wank yourself off into a pair of your mums knickers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3900 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Mohammed was a dick - he tried to brainwash people with mumbo jumbo nonsense. Â He lived in AD570 - 632 he preached about a monotheistic religion and changes to the way people worshipped god. That's the same god worshipped by Jews and Christians at the time, he wrote the Constitution of Medina in Circa 622 which ensured the rights of all people of Medina and was a multi faith community. He was someone I do not follow but I can't find anything I would call Abhorrent when judging him based on the world in which he lived i.e. most rulers and leaders at this time it could be fair to say would be called dictators or monsters by modern day standards. Abhorrent is a very strong word so I think I may have missed something in my reading (which is very limited on Islam). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21959 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Liar then. Bullshit artist maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3900 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Liar then. Bullshit artist maybe? Â No doubt, or maybe scizophrenic? not sure about the last one as he seemed to have been able to rule a decent number of followers fairly well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Left his id in the cab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3900 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Left his id in the cab. Â That did fucking amuse me btw, how many people go out to commit an atrocity these days and always manage to leave behind a piece of handy ID. Shot dead in Italy too, this is handy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 That did fucking amuse me btw, how many people go out to commit an atrocity these days and always manage to leave behind a piece of handy ID. Shot dead in Italy too, this is handy. Same with Paris they all had their passports with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4389 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 He lived in AD570 - 632 he preached about a monotheistic religion and changes to the way people worshipped god. That's the same god worshipped by Jews and Christians at the time, he wrote the Constitution of Medina in Circa 622 which ensured the rights of all people of Medina and was a multi faith community. He was someone I do not follow but I can't find anything I would call Abhorrent when judging him based on the world in which he lived i.e. most rulers and leaders at this time it could be fair to say would be called dictators or monsters by modern day standards. Abhorrent is a very strong word so I think I may have missed something in my reading (which is very limited on Islam).Consumating a marriage with a nine year old? Â I get your point about the times and there were certainly young (usually puberty based) marriages but nine is a bit out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3900 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 (edited) Consumating a marriage with a nine year old?  I get your point about the times and there were certainly young (usually puberty based) marriages but nine is a bit out there. Henry VIi mum was 12 when he was born nearly 1000 years later It's still shitty btw but not what I would consider evidence of "abhorrent intentions" Edited December 23, 2016 by Kevin Carr's Gloves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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