Terrorism

[aimaad22 4156]

You lot have such a convenient way of turning an eye. The US can go take out 200 people in a single strike somewhere in Africa and say they were all terrorists. Great. Why should we care? Its 5000 miles away. I dont work there after all. We'll care when the fallout reaches our homes and we start realizing that killing innocent people is not funny or foreign policy.

 

My my how civilized and developed

[Alex 35083]

Aye, hilarious

[Rayvin 5223]

You lot have such a convenient way of turning an eye. The US can go take out 200 people in a single strike somewhere in Africa and say they were all terrorists. Great. Why should we care? Its 5000 miles away. I dont work there after all. We'll care when the fallout reaches our homes and we start realizing that killing innocent people is not funny or foreign policy.

 

My my how civilized and developed

We're not all blind to the hypocrisy but we've been down this route before mate. I agree with you that our foreign policy consistently makes things worse, but tackling that now is a long term solution. People want something immediate so they can feel as though we're handling the issue. We're not just going to let people die while we correct our foreign policy.

 

Ultimately it's going to mean Trump style solutions and I reckon SEW has the right of it in the direction we're heading.

 

I did read about the killings in Yemen. Sounds as though the US is stepping up its attacks now - that said, wasn't that allegedly a terrorist training camp?

 

Not that you can trust the US statements in this respect given their track record...

[Toonpack 9409]

The western middle east policy was a disaster but it's got sweet fuck all to do with this insanity, we basically should have left the nutter despots alone, there are parts of the world which need a psycho regime to keep the lid on, the mistake was the belief that democracy could introduced and could flourish in what is basically middle ages era tribal and caste driven society. (see Sunni via Shia etc).

 

Western middle eastern policy is simply an excuse.

 

Anyone who goes to Syria should be interned upon return, anyone on a watch list should be similarly interned, if a few innocents get locked up, tough shit, better locked up than other innocents being murdered by the score.

[ChezGiven 0]

 

Oh dear. It was a general statement. I dont think the people who do this stuff are given history lessons. Its them against the west. Its the EU, its Europe. It has caused panic as you can see. Mission accomplished.

 

You can break down and analyze these incidents separately if you like. I dont see how anyone can see a solution to this without addressing the bigger picture.

 

 

Very well. My comment was about finding a long term solution to the terror threat, not just specific to Brussels or Paris. And for me that goes way back down to where the trouble started.

 

Question, have you ever actually been to Pakistan? Iran? Syria? Before you lot and your friends destroyed it that is. I'll tell you one thing though, some of the things you come up with, I'd feel much safer sitting next to a draconian tribal warlord from Waziristan than you. You'd probably be wearing a suit or something, but apart from that I wouldnt be sure what the difference in level of 'civility' would be.

 

Have you been to Brussels or Paris? If some of the things i come up with are troubling you then how about we re-visit everything you said after Paris because the arguments you used then are no longer going to hold water. You cant blame Belgium for what happened in the middle east.

 

Now i see you are saying these people are too thick to distinguish between Belgium and France's foreign policy and dont know their history and its just one fight against the west / eu. Then on the other hand, as you laid out in detail after Paris, they are acting out of a specific moral reaction to the actions of these countries and their oppression through history. But but but you just said they know nothing about history?

 

These inconsistencies make you sound like an apologist.

[Dr Gloom 21924]

You lot have such a convenient way of turning an eye. The US can go take out 200 people in a single strike somewhere in Africa and say they were all terrorists. Great. Why should we care? Its 5000 miles away. I dont work there after all. We'll care when the fallout reaches our homes and we start realizing that killing innocent people is not funny or foreign policy.

 

My my how civilized and developed

 

it's incredibly bad taste to be have a pop at western foreign policy in the immediate aftermath of an event like this. we all know it is flawed and the majority on here accept it is frequently misguided.

 

but the foreign policy atrocities committed by the US - or UK for that matter - have little to do with what happened in Brussels. there are myriad issues at play here, but one undeniable one is europe is dealing with a fascist death cult that wants to destroy everything european values stand for. and europe has to do something about it as long as it's happening within european territory.

[Kid Dynamite 7029]

Aye, hilarious

But true. Is your entire contribution to this just going to be one or two word snarky comments?

[Ken 119]

Yes, best to hold hands in solidarity and prey this doesn't happen again, anywhere.

 

Or, deport these Muslims who have anti-western values. Maybe even beef up security. I had friends visit Brussels last week and there was absolutely no security at the arrivals terminal. A lot of this is/was preventative. But Belgium is a dysfunctional and divisive country. Currently, 10% of Belgium's population are Muslim. 80% of the prison population in that country are Muslim. Anybody notice a pattern here?

 

Unrelated to Belgium's plight but how many Muslims have entered Europe in the last year alone? Many are justified refugees but how many not?

 

I'm sorry to say this but the damage done cannot be reversed, much like America's gun problem. Europe is fucked forever. You can only adjust to it and tolerate it as these inhumane actions continue into the future.

[Alex 35083]

But true. Is your entire contribution to this just going to be one or two word snarky comments?

Maybe.

[Kid Dynamite 7029]

Deport 'these Muslims'

 

Which ones exactly? I'd imagine if you're planning a bombing you're not going to be posting 'fuck the west' as your Facebook status.

[Ken 119]

Deport 'these Muslims'

 

Which ones exactly? I'd imagine if you're planning a bombing you're not going to be posting 'fuck the west' as your Facebook status.

For a start those that entered Europe without family. Single, male, without identification. Start with them. Or have they now mysteriously become untraceable?

 

Honestly, this mess cannot be repaired. You will just have to live with it.

[Rayvin 5223]

I see Donald Trump has come out and said that, if elected, he's going to 'hit ISIS so hard you wouldn't believe it'.

 

Given that he has previously come out in support of blowing up the wives and children of terrorists, this is more than a little concerning.

 

 

 

it's incredibly bad taste to be have a pop at western foreign policy in the immediate aftermath of an event like this.

 

 

Is it...? I honestly think that open debate on things like this should be encouraged. And it's not hard to see why Aimaad finds our views so tedious given that he is able to witness our foreign policy firsthand in his own country, and can probably see the negative impact it has on people's perceptions of the West as a result. He's not sitting there thinking we deserve this man, he's sitting there in despair that we can't see what he thinks is a clear cause-effect scenario between our foreign policy and these attacks. You can disagree with that of course, but I don't think shutting down the discussion (incredibly bad taste) is healthy if we're actually looking for solutions.

 

It's actually all kind of moot now though, we're past the point of no return here with respect of it being foreign policy or not, so we need a solution that addresses the issue aside from this. It's very likely going to be the rescinding of civil liberties, I would expect.

[Rayvin 5223]

 

 

Honestly, this mess cannot be repaired. You will just have to live with it.

 

Not sure I agree with everything else you've said, but I reckon this is about right now. We need to adapt and coexist better than we are managing.

[Dr Gloom 21924]

Yes, best to hold hands in solidarity and prey this doesn't happen again, anywhere.

 

Or, deport these Muslims who have anti-western values. Maybe even beef up security. I had friends visit Brussels last week and there was absolutely no security at the arrivals terminal. A lot of this is/was preventative. But Belgium is a dysfunctional and divisive country. Currently, 10% of Belgium's population are Muslim. 80% of the prison population in that country are Muslim. Anybody notice a pattern here?

 

Unrelated to Belgium's plight but how many Muslims have entered Europe in the last year alone? Many are justified refugees but how many not?

 

I'm sorry to say this but the damage done cannot be reversed, much like America's gun problem. Europe is fucked forever. You can only adjust to it and tolerate it as these inhumane actions continue into the future.

spoken like a true Australian.

[Ken 119]

Coexist with those who harbor anti-western values? Sadly this is the only option left on the table for Europe. The damage is done, seeds sown, and terror awaits.

[Dr Gloom 21924]

I see Donald Trump has come out and said that, if elected, he's going to 'hit ISIS so hard you wouldn't believe it'.

 

Given that he has previously come out in support of blowing up the wives and children of terrorists, this is more than a little concerning.

 

 

 

 

Is it...? I honestly think that open debate on things like this should be encouraged. And it's not hard to see why Aimaad finds our views so tedious given that he is able to witness our foreign policy firsthand in his own country, and can probably see the negative impact it has on people's perceptions of the West as a result. He's not sitting there thinking we deserve this man, he's sitting there in despair that we can't see what he thinks is a clear cause-effect scenario between our foreign policy and these attacks. You can disagree with that of course, but I don't think shutting down the discussion (incredibly bad taste) is healthy if we're actually looking for solutions.

 

It's actually all kind of moot now though, we're past the point of no return here with respect of it being foreign policy or not, so we need a solution that addresses the issue aside from this. It's very likely going to be the rescinding of civil liberties, I would expect.

I think it is, yet. I'm all for free and open debate but immediately attacking "the west" when the death toll from the attacks in Brussels is still rising shows an incredible lack of compassion. Particularly given Belgium ha little to do with the misguided foreign policy adventures he refers to.

[Ken 119]

spoken like a true Australian.

Our problems here pale into insignificance to what Europe is facing. Some thought our border security policies were inhumane and racist. We were debating whether 10,000 Muslim refugees was justified. Europe has over a million a year entering it. Many unchecked. Don't you find this the least bit concerning? Angela Merkel the humanist, eh?

[ewerk 30611]

Currently, 10% of Belgium's population are Muslim. 80% of the prison population in that country are Muslim. Anybody notice a pattern here?

 

The figures I've seen quoted are 5% and 45%, care to share your source?

[Ken 119]

 

The figures I've seen quoted are 5% and 45%, care to share your source?

OK that is France's figure - 80%. I stand corrected.

[Dr Gloom 21924]

Our problems here pale into insignificance to what Europe is facing. Some thought our border security policies were inhumane and racist. We were debating whether 10,000 Muslim refugees was justified. Europe has over a million a year entering it. Many unchecked. Don't you find this the least bit concerning? Angela Merkel the humanist, eh?

 

it's a hopeless situation. on the one hand, i think britain should be doing more and accept more people fleeing persecution and bombings in places like syria. on the other hand, i'd obviously rather not see people who want to kill innocent people by blowing themselves up arrive on these shores.

 

i don't think closing the borders is the solution. something has to be done though.

[ewerk 30611]

OK that is France's figure - 80%. I stand corrected.

 

No, it's 70%. Try another country.

[Alex 35083]

Ken getting his stats off Fox News

[Meenzer 15529]

Ken getting his stats off the back of a Malbec bottle

[Dr Gloom 21924]

[Ken 119]

 

it's a hopeless situation. on the one hand, i think britain should be doing more and accept more people fleeing persecution and bombings in places like syria. on the other hand, i'd obviously rather not see people who want to kill innocent people by blowing themselves up arrive on these shores.

 

i don't think closing the borders is the solution. something has to be done though.

The Wahhabi sect are a direct threat to Western civilisation/democracy. Is it known how many of them have migrated to Europe?

But it is much more deep rooted than that. You can have young Muslims born and brought up in a in a normal middle class family in any nominated western country but get on the net and start reading extremist propaganda and turn in an instant. It has happened here, it has/will happen in Europe many times over.