Terrorism

[Kid Dynamite 7025]

1 minute ago, ewerk said:

 

It's absolutely normal in 95% of the world, there is no reason whatsoever to say that it wouldn't work in GB.

 

You were shouting at the telly because Corbyn wouldn't nuke the world weren't you 

[ewerk 30598]

On the contrary I've defended his stance but you feel free to make as many assumptions as you'd like.

[PaddockLad 17246]

50 minutes ago, ewerk said:

 

 

Bollocks, it does very little, if anything, for community trust. The UK is one of a handful of countries that don't arm their police which is even more ridiculous given the threats we all face today.

 

Course the other side of that coin is how many would've died if the terrorists had been armed themselves? 

 

Edit: if armed with firearms 

Edited June 4, 2017 by PaddockLad

[ewerk 30598]

It really isn't the other side of the coin. You can't say that because they didn't have guns then the police didn't need them.

[PaddockLad 17246]

The police in this country not being armed per se and the tightest gun control laws in the developed world come from the same starting point in this country iyam.  

[NJS 4378]

45 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

I don't think it's bollocks like. You're tainted from your experience of the bogside. Here, it's just not normal. I remember the first time I went to NYC and seeing the normal police with holsters and wired hand guns. Straight away made me feel uneasy.

 

Look, we've had 3 atrocities in a short time and in the worst of these arming police would have done nowt. The other 2 it's dubious. Put it in perspective on a national scale These extremists want to destroy our liberties. I say fuck them. I think I'm right in saying most the police agree and don't want to be armed with lethal weapons. Tazers are a good compromise. 

I come into Liverpool Street station and work very close to St Paul's - I pretty much only see coppers with guns these days and I think in the context of the locations I don't mind at all. 

 

I don't think I'd like it in town on a night out or at the match though. 

[ewerk 30598]

6 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

The police in this country not being armed per se and the tightest gun control laws in the developed world come from the same starting point in this country iyam.  

 

 

You don't believe it's possible to have one without the other?

 

I understand that low levels of gun ownership have meant that armed police haven't been necessary in the past but if this new style of threat is on the up then what's the downside in giving the police guns?

[PaddockLad 17246]

Just now, ewerk said:

 

 

You don't believe it's possible to have one without the other?

 

I understand that low levels of gun ownership have meant that armed police haven't been necessary in the past but if this new style of threat is on the up then what's the downside in giving the police guns?

 

 

As NJS said the police are armed where necessary.  I posted earlier when the IRA bombed bishopsgate in the 90s there were armed police sentry points on London Bridge, the north side of which is the bottom of bishopsgate. Easy to say with hindsight but if they'd be reinstated there after Westminster the outcome may have been different last night.  There are extra measures we can take outside of the security services like this but it looks like we're standing on our dicks a bit at the moment. 

[ewerk 30598]

The IRA used an entirely different MO. The two attacks in London have used a tactic not yet really seen in the UK (Lee Rigby aside). Policing tactics need to adapt to the changing threat.

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

32 minutes ago, ewerk said:

 

 

You don't believe it's possible to have one without the other?

 

I understand that low levels of gun ownership have meant that armed police haven't been necessary in the past but if this new style of threat is on the up then what's the downside in giving the police guns?

 

Firearms officers are vetted, recruited and trained to a high standard. What do you think will happen if you give 125k police officers guns? It'd almost certainly cause more harm than good. I feel safe and assured when I see an armed copper now. I know he's been selected for his temperament, intelligence, abilities with a gun etc. The thought of street bobbies carrying one absolutely terrifies me tbh 

Edited June 4, 2017 by TheGingerQuiff

[ewerk 30598]

How do they fare in other European countries?

[Kid Dynamite 7025]

Tbh

 

 

We are still, by and large, a safe and civilised country. We don't need a paramilitary police force 

 

[PaddockLad 17246]

15 minutes ago, ewerk said:

The IRA used an entirely different MO. The two attacks in London have used a tactic not yet really seen in the UK (Lee Rigby aside). Policing tactics need to adapt to the changing threat.

 

 That's true about the IRA, but the bishopsgate bomb was a truck bomb which had to be driven into position, either past the scene of last nights atrocity or down through shore ditch and round the old street roundabout.  Checkpoints would've stopped that,  and after Westminster 3 Asians in a van probably wouldn't have bothered with that tactic again. This isn't a criticism of the security services, but we should re instate then round the CoL, all around "ceremonial London" and at all Thames crossings on both sides. Put cameras on them too, take pictures of all moving round that area. 

 

 

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

18 minutes ago, ewerk said:

How do they fare in other European countries?

 

Aren't they recruited on the basis of it being a gun-carrying job though? Not sticking a gun on them after-the-fact

[ewerk 30598]

Do you think that makes a difference in the way that they're recruited?

[ewerk 30598]

5 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

 

 That's true about the IRA, but the bishopsgate bomb was a truck bomb which had to be driven into position, either past the scene of last nights atrocity or down through shore ditch and round the old street roundabout.  Checkpoints would've stopped that,  and after Westminster 3 Asians in a van probably wouldn't have bothered with that tactic again. This isn't a criticism of the security services, but we should re instate then round the CoL, all around "ceremonial London" and at all Thames crossings on both sides. Put cameras on them too, take pictures of all moving round that area. 

 

 

 

 

Again, the IRA were different. They were about disruption and destruction of property. These fuckers are about the number of lives they can take. If you barricade London they simply move on to other less high profile locations but with equally high opportunities for casualties.

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

And giving ordinary officers guns in the hope that they can respond to an incident in a densely populated terrorist target zone a few minutes sooner is going to do what? A firearms officer's stray bullet caught somebody last night. What is pc plod going to do ffs

[ewerk 30598]

And surely that shows that you don't get a perfect result even with specially trained officers.

 

Does it work in other European countries? Genuine question, I haven't done the research.

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

9 minutes ago, ewerk said:

And surely that shows that you don't get a perfect result even with specially trained officers.

 

Does it work in other European countries? Genuine question, I haven't done the research.

 

I haven't researched it either. Awful logic, that though. Even a proper firearms officer can clip a civilian so let's arm the entire force?

 

Lad I play golf with brought his mate along once who happens to be a copper. He threw proper little tantrums when he played a bad shot and kicked off at us when he lost his ball because we weren't helping him look for it. A total arsehole and I told my mate to never bring him along again when I'm playing. Some coppers are proper wankers. Like shite do I want them armed

Edited June 4, 2017 by TheGingerQuiff

[ewerk 30598]

That wasn't the logic for my proposal though.

 

But if you've met an arsehole cop then that's more than enough justification for national policing policy.

[Dr Gloom 21915]

Do most over European countries arm their entire police forces wirh guns like? I had no idea that was the case or that we're in the minority. 

 

I can understand investing more on specialist armed police given the times we're living in but don't think it needs to extend to every bobby on the beat. 

[ewerk 30598]

Not just Europe but I think there's less than ten countries in the world who don't arm their run of the mill cops.

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

36 minutes ago, ewerk said:

And surely that shows that you don't get a perfect result even with specially trained officers.

 

 

So what was the point in saying this then? 

 

It's taken officers considered to be elite enough to be on a firearms team 50 bullets and they've shot a civilian. How can you possibly conclude that giving a lesser officer a pistol would do anything in this situation? Terrorists target densely populated events/social gatherings and you think a street bobby firing a pistol around might somehow be a good counter measure? It's ridiculous even before you consider the ramifications of having police with guns in non-terrorist situations.

[Dr Gloom 21915]

7 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Not just Europe but I think there's less than ten countries in the world who don't arm their run of the mill cops.

 

Funny that I've never really noticed it outside of the US and mybe France. The US is dodgy as. They even arm the border control desk jockeys who check your passport. Nothing says welcome to America after a 12 hour flight like some miserable looking minimum wage cop with a pistol on his side. 

Edited June 4, 2017 by Dr Gloom

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

6 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Not just Europe but I think there's less than ten countries in the world who don't arm their run of the mill cops.

 

That's some good knowledge for somebody that hasn't done his research