Terrorism

[Rayvin 5223]

i think a full burqa makes most us feel a bit uneasy, if we're all honest. but we're all a bit too british and a bit too right on, on this board, to say so. well, most of us.

 

it's also ironic because most on the hard left would also say they're feminist. there's absolutely nothing feminist about a burqa 

 

Hard left is a bit of a stretch. Feminists aren't hard left. They're soft left with a dose of right wing prudishness. Feminism in this country is for the middle class, by the middle class.

 

Right and left, as Parky said in the other thread, may not be very relevant these days. I'm left wing but identity politics in my view is nothing more than a divisive distraction from the more important issues that people face every day. I'm yet to see it bring about any positive meaningful change; if anything, it's causing even more strife now than we had originally, as we're getting Trump style backlashes against it.

 

All of this is just a massive distraction from the key fucking issues.

 

But yes, the identity politics left does seem to try to protect both feminism and Islam in the same stroke - which is a very difficult position when held up to scrutiny.

[Dr Gloom 21924]

For instance, is the burqa dehumanising or not? ANSWER THE QUESTION!

 

anyone who believes in gender equality would say yes. but then most of us also believe in freedom of expression so it's kind of a catch 22 innit

[Dr Gloom 21924]

Hard left is a bit of a stretch. Feminists aren't hard left. They're soft left with a dose of right wing prudishness. Feminism in this country is for the middle class, by the middle class.

 

Right and left, as Parky said in the other thread, may not be very relevant these days. I'm left wing but identity politics in my view is nothing more than a divisive distraction from the more important issues that people face every day. I'm yet to see it bring about any positive meaningful change; if anything, it's causing even more strife now than we had originally, as we're getting Trump style backlashes against it.

 

All of this is just a massive distraction from the key fucking issues.

 

But yes, the identity politics left does seem to try to protect both feminism and Islam in the same stroke - which is a very difficult position when held up to scrutiny.

 

ok, so the do-gooding left. the point stands

[Happy Face 29]

i think a full burqa makes most us feel a bit uneasy, if we're all honest. but we're all a bit too british and a bit too right on, on this board, to say so. well, most of us.

 

it's also ironic because most on the hard left would also say they're feminist. there's absolutely nothing feminist about a burqa 

 

So is the reason to ban the burqa  because of how it makes us feel, rather than freeing the woman wearing it from her oppressor?

 

Does banning the visual symbol of female subjugation (as you see it) fix the multitude of other areas in which muslim women are rendered second class citizens?

 

Shouldn't the burqa be maintained as a symbol of that subjugation until they have equality in ALL areas of their lives, rather than swept under the carpet so that we can congratulate ourselves on the misapprehension that the least of their problems has been solved on our shores?

[Renton 21627]

anyone who believes in gender equality would say yes. but then most of us also believe in freedom of expression so it's kind of a catch 22 innit

I don't think the women wearing a burqa are free to express anything. Imo one way or another they're coerced.

[Rayvin 5223]

@ Rayvin. France has double the proportion of Muslims living there than us, and arguably worse domestic intelligence. Unfortunately he population will have to get use to it, is he not just being candid? Shit situation all round.

 

Sort of agree. Well I do agree to be honest. But at the same time, France is being targeted because of their involvement in Syria. We know this because the terrorists made it clear. Why isn't their president saying that they'll stop interfering in order to safeguard their citizenry? It's probably too late but ffs, the fact that the government response is to throw their hands up and tell everyone that this is just going to happen and act like there's nothing they can do is exactly the sort of response that makes the hard right look viable. Because they fucking will do something. Shouldn't that be a worry?

[Rayvin 5223]

ok, so the do-gooding left. the point stands

 

I think you and I should just accept that, whenever we start debating something, we're probably in agreement from the outset

[Dr Gloom 21924]

So is the reason to ban the burqa  because of how it makes us feel, rather than freeing the woman wearing it from her oppressor?

 

Does banning the visual symbol of female subjugation (as you see it) fix the multitude of other areas in which muslim women are rendered second class citizens?

 

Shouldn't the burqa be maintained as a symbol of that subjugation until they have equality in ALL areas of their lives, rather than swept under the carpet so that we can congratulate ourselves on the misapprehension that the least of their problems has been solved on our shores?

 

i don't know what the answer is. all i know is a see some poor sod in a full burqa and my reactions are first revulsion an then pity. maybe the baby step of all muslim women feeling they have the right to show their face in public could lead to more progressive measures. who knows? 

[Kid Dynamite 7030]

For instance, is the burqa dehumanising or not? ANSWER THE QUESTION!

It's more fun watching you get narked at being in the minority on here

[Rayvin 5223]

i don't know what the answer is. all i know is a see some poor sod in a full burqa and my reactions are first revulsion an then pity. maybe the baby step of all muslim women feeling they have the right to show their face in public could lead to more progressive measures. who knows? 

 

I dunno man - I can see your logic on that but I think you need smaller steps first. That's a really symbolic thing to suddenly wrench away from them.

 

We need to combat the ideology with our own. Why we don't do this, is a mystery.

[Dr Gloom 21924]

I dunno man - I can see your logic on that but I think you need smaller steps first. That's a really symbolic thing to suddenly wrench away from them.

 

We need to combat the ideology with our own. Why we don't do this, is a mystery.

 

bombing them seems to be the preferred course of action. 

[Happy Face 29]

i don't know what the answer is. all i know is a see some poor sod in a full burqa and my reactions are first revulsion an then pity. maybe the baby step of all muslim women feeling they have the right to show their face in public could lead to more progressive measures. who knows? 

 

Yeah, pity is about what I'd place it at.  Think revulsion goes a bit far. Good read from the perspective of an intelligent, burqa wearing woman here, rather than all us middle aged white men getting outraged on their behalf...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2009/aug/26/muslim-women-feminism-burqas

[Dr Gloom 21924]

It's more fun watching you get narked at being in the minority on here

 

ANSWER THE QUESTION

[Rayvin 5223]

Yeah, pity is about what I'd place it at.  Think revulsion goes a bit far. Good read from the perspective of an intelligent, burqa wearing woman here, rather than all us middle aged white men getting outraged on their behalf...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2009/aug/26/muslim-women-feminism-burqas

 

1 - I'm not middle aged. How dare you.

 

2 - That's the Guardian ffs. That's the bastion of the very branch of the left wing Gloom was complaining about. Defenders of Islam, Defenders of Feminism. All in the same hypocritical breath. They do great work on a lot of things but their lot in identity politics is utterly dismal. 

 

Other than that, I agree that she has more insight into this than we do

[Happy Face 29]

1 - I'm not middle aged. How dare you.

 

2 - That's the Guardian ffs. That's the bastion of the very branch of the left wing Gloom was complaining about. Defenders of Islam, Defenders of Feminism. All in the same hypocritical breath. They do great work on a lot of things but their lot in identity politics is utterly dismal. 

 

Other than that, I agree that she has more insight into this than we do

 

 

We pity them because they are victims of men and religion.  But then, they pity us because we're heathens and will go to hell.

 

Let's all just bask in our warm feeling of superiority and enjoy it.

[NJS 4386]

Before banning the burka, I'd ban sharia "courts" and the equivalent Jewish ones for a start.

[Dr Gloom 21924]

Don't get me started on the Orthodox Jews

[Park Life 71]

For instance, is the burqa dehumanising or not? ANSWER THE QUESTION!

Reeeezes.

[Park Life 71]

Hard left is a bit of a stretch. Feminists aren't hard left. They're soft left with a dose of right wing prudishness. Feminism in this country is for the middle class, by the middle class.

Right and left, as Parky said in the other thread, may not be very relevant these days. I'm left wing but identity politics in my view is nothing more than a divisive distraction from the more important issues that people face every day. I'm yet to see it bring about any positive meaningful change; if anything, it's causing even more strife now than we had originally, as we're getting Trump style backlashes against it.

 

All of this is just a massive distraction from the key fucking issues.

 

But yes, the identity politics left does seem to try to protect both feminism and Islam in the same stroke - which is a very difficult position when held up to scrutiny.

Distractions they certainly are. They put a lot of mind addling nonsense out there while the machine grinds on cracking human skulls and starving millions of people, buying up the water supply, big agro business putting farmers out of business so they can colonise the food production of the whole planet...OoooOO does my arse look big in this?

Gender politics is probably the biggest psy-ops of all time.

 

Edited November 3, 2016 by Park Life

[Dr Gloom 21924]

Distractions they certainly are. They put a lot of mind addling nonsense out there while the machine grinds on cracking human skulls and starving millions of people, buying up the water supply, big agro business putting farmers out of business so they can colonise the food production of the whole planet...OoooOO does my arse look big in this?

Gender politics is probably the biggest psy-ops of all time.

 

 

Sorry, but what?

[Park Life 71]

Sorry, but what?

Eh?

[Dr Gloom 21924]

The gender politics bit.

[Park Life 71]

The gender politics bit.

All culture is created. People don't wake up one morning with new ideas they read them in magazines or see them on the telly. Pretty much everything me and you believe in was given to us and we probably can't verify most of it.

 

The hyper real is in operation all around us. Go to somewhere like Brighton. Pretty much all of the trendy town center is not real....It's 'the real' which is a Capitalist creation to sell ideas and product. Capitalism colonizes ideas like say the early women's movement and then flips it back against women to sell them product (lifestyles). All these lifestyles are copied - monkey see monkey do. Captialism has created a mirror of the real which has nothing to do with any of us basically...Hang the DJ etc........

 

To cut to the chase Feminism has been weaponized into a tool to control society at large. After the early post 2nd world war days they needed quick re-population so the nuclear family was all the rage. Around about the 60's they switched it...Magazines were suddenly full of women alone on beaches, buying cars (for themselves), free love...Most of this stuff is staged....At the nexus the moment of hyper reality is in a studio with lights and recording equipment....With actors and pr men and social psychologists...The moment of creation is fake....

Edited November 3, 2016 by Park Life

[Park Life 71]

[Meenzer 15531]

tl;dr Parky is still terrified of women