Terrorism

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3748]

My CEO was on Sky News last night showing our weapon detection system. It does feel a bit like war profiteering though.

[ewerk 29836]

Hilary has this shit covered.

 

[aimaad22 4019]

From ISIS' point of view, its all working out perfectly.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/24/scariest-brussels-reactoin-paranoid-politicians-isis-atrocity-belgium?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Add_to_Facebook

 

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[Renton 20629]

What can you do after blowing something to bits? I suppose the first thought would resolving not to break another thing to bits. I see from the US/UK aided Saudi strikes on Yemen that the lesson has definitely not been learnt.

 

Leaving them to their own devices, interesting you say that. Because apparently isnt that how ISIS got a lot of their arms? Haphazard US withdrawal, abandoned bases and misplaced supply drops? Look at Afghanistan right now. The Taliban are as strong as ever. Stronger maybe. You have to wonder exactly what US and allied forces have been doing there for so long. Trillions of dollars, thousands of dead soldiers. Wont bring up the civilians, since they're so far away and all. I doubt the Afghan government will be able to stand 6 months on its own. Kabul will fall again.

 

Can anything be done to stabilize Syria and Iraq? I dont know? Some sort of end to the civil wars everyone has played a part in maybe? Is anyone even looking at that? I dont know. Probably not.

 

What sort of one line solution do you expect for this mess? There's no intent at the moment. Oh there may be condolences and raised fists and emotional speeches from your leaders about dealing with these people. But they're changing nothing. Little stop gaps domestically maybe. But the wars go on. Which is why I keep banging on about them. Repeated failures upon failures. From Afghanistan to Iraq to Syria. Yet the wars go on. Dont stop that and nothing else works.

 

Simple one line solution: there has to be a sincere signal of intent to stop the wars. Just look at the state of some of those places man. Beyond belief. And everyone has played a part in it. Simply for wanting one guy in charge instead of the other.

 

I already said I cant really comment on what steps maybe taken locally, increased surveillance or better intelligence or whatever.

I don't disagree with a lot of that but notice you seem to put no blame on the countries involved, it's all the fault of the west from your perspective. You might want to look into the cause if Iraq 1 and Afghanistan BTW, although I admit Iraq 2 was inexplicable.

 

But anyway, let's get back to the point of why you're being criticized. In your OP on this thread, you report a horrific massacre that occurred near where you live. This was sectarian Muslim on Muslim violence, although I'm sure you will find a way to blame the west for it.

 

You had nothing but sympathy from the posters on this board, nobody tried to blame your countries inadequacies or your religion for it. To do so would have been in extremely bad taste after all.

 

Then we have an atrocity in the heart of Europe 2 days ago, in an area near where some posters live (and indeed it looks like a man from NE England was killed). You immediately blame the cause of this on "the west". Personally I find this mentality pretty disrespectful.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3748]

I don't disagree with a lot of that but notice you seem to put no blame on the countries involved, it's all the fault of the west from your perspective. You might want to look into the cause if Iraq 1 and Afghanistan BTW, although I admit Iraq 2 was inexplicable.

 

But anyway, let's get back to the point of why you're being criticized. In your OP on this thread, you report a horrific massacre that occurred near where you live. This was sectarian Muslim on Muslim violence, although I'm sure you will find a way to blame the west for it.

 

You had nothing but sympathy from the posters on this board, nobody tried to blame your countries inadequacies or your religion for it. To do so would have been in extremely bad taste after all.

 

Then we have an atrocity in the heart of Europe 2 days ago, in an area near where some posters live (and indeed it looks like a man from NE England was killed). You immediately blame the cause of this on "the west". Personally I find this mentality pretty disrespectful.

So what caused Iraq 1 and Afghanistan then Rents?

[Holden McGroin 6403]

A teacher on my Facebook timeline posted this. Excellent read.

 

 

Following the recent attacks in Brussels - which came after the attacks in Ankara, attacks you may not have even heard of - it's going to be tempting to start arguing that we shouldn't be letting immigrants in, and we are fuelling terrorism by having open borders and allowing refugees into our country. However, let me tell you a little story.

I once caught a Muslim student looking up 9/11 and Al Quaeda on the internet during a class I was covering. He was looking at comments on an article and in the middle of replying to a particularly aggressive and racist comment with a comment of his own along the lines of "death to the West."

I reported the boy and we opened a dialogue with him.

What was startling - and startlingly obvious with hindsight - was his response.

He was becoming radicalised, yes. But his reasons for doing so weren't because he hated this country, or hated our God. It was because he was tired. Tired of the racism. Tired of being told "your people" should get out of Britain. Tired of the rise of UKIP. Tired of being spat at in the street. Tired, and sick, of being made to feel like an unwelcome guest in the country he was born and grew up in. He admitted that he knew what he was doing was wrong; however, the anti-west groups and flourishing seeds of ISIS gave him a voice, made him feel valued and encouraged him to become an independent and active young man.

We don't want to hear it because we always want someone else to blame. But ISIS' flame burns bright because it is fuelled by hatred. It is fuelled by hundreds of thousands of people blaming innocent Muslim children and innocent Muslim parents for things they didn't do. It is fuelled by every person who says "send them back" or "close the borders". It is fuelled by anyone who calls them "scum" or ostracises them.

I'm not a religious person but now is not the time for arrogance, racism and aggression. Now is the time to open your hand to your fellow man, and extinguish the flame through trust, understanding and compassion.

All I ask is that before you post that anti-Muslim article, or EDL meme, you think - how many young, already disenfranchised Muslims are going to see this? How many people am I pushing into the arms of ISIS with this comment or share? Then think - how many people could I save instead, by making all Muslim people sure that I do not hate them, and stand against ISIS with them?

Be the better person. Please.

 

Edited March 24, 2016 by Holden McGroin

[Renton 20629]

So what caused Iraq 1 and Afghanistan then Rents?

Iraq 1 was an obvious and necessary response to the invasion of Kuwait.

 

Afghanistan was a direct response to 9/11, the worst single terrorist attack in history, committed by those cuddly salafist muslims.

 

But you know this so what's your point, are you going to give me a history lecture?

Edited March 24, 2016 by Renton

[Rayvin 5131]

Good post by Holden McGroin. Not the whole issue for us but goes some way to explaining how radicalisation happens on the home front.

[The Fish 10543]

A teacher on my Facebook timeline posted this. Excellent read.

 

 

Nice sentiment, but only 1/2 of the problem.

[Renton 20629]

Nice sentiment, but only 1/2 of the problem.

There are plenty of marginalised groups in society, we need to address what's different about this one.

 

But honestly, if you do it's amazing how quick the islamophobia and racist cards come out. I just don't think burying our heads in the sand is a valid option any more.

[Rayvin 5131]

What's different about this one is that there's a well organised terrorist group sitting out there praying upon and weirdly empowering those who are victims of our insecurity. Insecurity that this group themselves create. It's a very good strategy actually, its working very well.

 

That said, some part of that cycle has to stop somewhere for this to end.

[The Fish 10543]

There are plenty of marginalised groups in society, we need to address what's different about this one.

 

But honestly, if you do it's amazing how quick the islamophobia and racist cards come out. I just don't think burying our heads in the sand is a valid option any more.

 

The other's aren't a death cult. You can't threaten them with loss of life, indefinite imprisonment acts as fuel for further radicalisation.

 

Surely the real solution to the radicalisation of young, disenfranchised boys has to come from within the Islamic faith?

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3748]

Iraq 1 was an obvious and necessary response to the invasion of Kuwait.

 

Afghanistan was a direct response to 9/11, the worst single terrorist attack in history, committed by those cuddly salafist muslims.

 

But you know this so what's your point, are you going to give me a history lecture?

 

I try not to lecture Morons so not really.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3748]

Iraq 1 was an obvious and necessary response to the invasion of Kuwait.

 

Afghanistan was a direct response to 9/11, the worst single terrorist attack in history, committed by those cuddly salafist muslims.

 

But you know this so what's your point, are you going to give me a history lecture?

 

Of the 19 hijackers who perpetrated the 9/11 attacks how many were from Afghanistan?

Edited March 24, 2016 by Kevin Carr's Gloves

[Dr Gloom 21615]

I agree with a lot of what aimaad says, but not everything. The west has embarked on some seriously misguided foreign interventions in the Middle East. Our continued allegiance with the Saudis, probably the most repressive and fucked up

state in the world, is disgusting. And the world would unquestionably be a safer place today if we'd stayed the fuck out of Iraq, post 9/11.

 

But i don't see how the so-called Arab spring and subsequent war in Syria, which has helped the likes of Isis continue to flourish, is our fault. Western intervention did not directly create Islamism and jihad. It existed before any unjust western backed war in the Arab world.

 

Remember they hate and want to murder everyone that doesn't conform to their twisted belief system - not just "the west".

[Dr Gloom 21615]

 

Of the 19 hijackers who perpetrated the 9/11 attacks how many were from Afghanistan?

The guy who masterminded it was based there. The yanks were always going to go after him. Hard to call that one an unjust conflict. You're talking about a retaliation to the biggest atrocity every committed on American soil

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3748]

The guy who masterminded it was based there. The yanks were always going to go after him. Hard to call that one an unjust conflict. You're talking about a retaliation to the biggest atrocity every committed on American soil

But they didn't get him in Afghanistan, they used a bomb to crack a walnut and missed the fucking walnut. It was a totally over the odds misguided response.

[NJS 4294]

The guy who masterminded it was based there. The yanks were always going to go after him. Hard to call that one an unjust conflict. You're talking about a retaliation to the biggest atrocity every committed on American soil

Probably in Pakistan all along.

[Rayvin 5131]

I think the response should have been a Navy Seal team rather than levelling a country whose only crime was being the place the guy fled to (and likely left almost immediately when the bombs started falling).

 

Afghanistan was a foreign policy disaster as well as a humanitarian one.

[Dr Gloom 21615]

But they didn't get him in Afghanistan, they used a bomb to crack a walnut and missed the fucking walnut. It was a totally over the odds misguided response.

Do you agree they had to respond though?

Edited March 24, 2016 by Dr Gloom

[Meenzer 15201]

 

I think this is the key point to be noted here.

[NJS 4294]

I think the response should have been a Navy Seal team rather than levelling a country whose only crime was being the place the guy fled to (and likely left almost immediately when the bombs started falling).

 

Afghanistan was a foreign policy disaster as well as a humanitarian one.

They also didn't fall in line with their paymasters and trainers once they got power - probably worse than any part in the attacks.

[Renton 20629]

 

Of the 19 hijackers who perpetrated the 9/11 attacks how many were from Afghanistan?

I never said the wars were justified, I was simply stating the reasons for them. Bin Laden was behind 9/11 and he was in Afghanistan. The nationality of the hijackers, nearly exclusively Saudi (a fact that is widely known and not a piece of knowledge exclusive to you), was not relevant to the motives of the war.

 

For the record, I have been on this board since its inception, and have argued against every military intervention in the Middle East region, precisely because I was afraid what it would unleash. I've noticed in that time you come across as a fairly aggressive childish person as well with people you disagree with. It's a trait I've noticed in a lot of the ex-armed forces lot on here over the years. HTL, Leazes Mag, and yourself. If you can't debate without throwing in ad hom attacks then don't bother.

[Dr Gloom 21615]

Weren't HTL and Leazesmag the same person?

 

Where does that leave Thompers?

[Renton 20629]

Weren't HTL and Leazesmag the same person?

 

Where does that leave Thompers?

No, they were cybermates but definitely different people. HTL was an utter cunt of a man, kept wanting to meet up with Alex.

 

Thompers completely missed my radar.