The Fish 10963 Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 Honestly, and I'm desperately not to sound pretentious or owt, but it's basically a wide player that looks to take advantage of space. So a ... wide trequartista Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Ben Arfa just back off holiday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14013 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Football is a big old pile of shite anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14013 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 For years in the last century the FA didn't want to know as they believed because we invented the game that we knew best. Cite the debacles when we played Hungary in the 50s or even after winning the World Cup. Or just not bothering with FIFA & ignoring the World Cup for 20 years as we thought we we're the best anyway. I've just finished reading 'The Football Man' by Arthur Hopcraft - written in 1968 he basically tries to canvas British football culture up to that point & does a good job. Even 2 years after winning the World Cup he knew we were getting left behind. If anything Ramsey's pragmatism & risk cutting became a blueprint for English managers & it's probably a fair comment to call it restrictive. Basically we are suffering the same problems we always have - the F.A is full of clueless old men & any developments cited for the future seem utterly rubbish - England DNA? I think you could say the England team probably have similar problems or worse than say ten years ago. Look how quick the German's turned it round - obviously they are of a greater footballing pedigree mind.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17648 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 (edited) The football landscape has been skewed so radically by money since the late 60s though that it makes comparison very difficult. The FA is now a huge corporate entity rather than how you accurately describe it back then. I think the overriding reason why England don't do well at international level is the strength of club culture in this country. There are a thousand and one "technical" reasons too, but we've got a higher concentration of professional clubs than anywhere else in the world. Clubs that would be part time anywhere else in Europe populate the bottom two divisions and the Vanarama premier is also basically a wholly professional division 5. The FA's chief focus has always been these clubs rather than the national team. That is changing, but as you pointed out when the Germans performed so poorly in Euro 2000 they could change their system very quickly because their culture us geared towards the success of the national team. The German clubs' (I think only the top two divisions are full time professional?) academies are basically offshoots of the German FA rather than run by the clubs,for the clubs. Can't see that changing very quickly in this country tbh. Edited December 13, 2014 by PaddockLad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14013 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 The FA is now a huge corporate entity rather than how you accurately describe it back then. You say that but Greg Dyke is still the chairman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 (edited) The football landscape has been skewed so radically by money since the late 60s though that it makes comparison very difficult. The FA is now a huge corporate entity rather than how you accurately describe it back then. I think the overriding reason why England don't do well at international level is the strength of club culture in this country. There are a thousand and one "technical" reasons too, but we've got a higher concentration of professional clubs than anywhere else in the world. Clubs that would be part time anywhere else in Europe populate the bottom two divisions and the Vanarama premier is also basically a wholly professional division 5. The FA's chief focus has always been these clubs rather than the national team. That is changing, but as you pointed out when the Germans performed so poorly in Euro 2000 they could change their system very quickly because their culture us geared towards the success of the national team. The German clubs' (I think only the top two divisions are full time professional?) academies are basically offshoots of the German FA rather than run by the clubs,for the clubs. Can't see that changing very quickly in this country tbh. As you say the football culture in Germany is a little different, there is a lot invested in the national team and it is a kind of flagship so when they did poorly for a few years the radical overhaul was carried out in frenetic fashion and part of that was making the clubs more responsible. There is a kind of player production line here and many less foreign players clogging that up than we have in England. The Germans also started looking further a field to Poland/Eastern Europe (for talent and passports were made available) and also increasing participation of Turkish youth in German football even to the extent of bypassing German 'blood' laws (which only changed 4/5 years ago) ie Turks born in Germany weren't automatically able to get German passports (not something much debated in the EU). We are about a decade behind and we will remain so untill PL clubs are brought into line and teams aren't put out with 10 non Eng qualifyied players every w/e. Edited December 13, 2014 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17648 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 You say that but Greg Dyke is still the chairman well yeah it's like listening to a jumped up barrowboy but he's been a corporate placeman for decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3966 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Honestly, and I'm desperately not to sound pretentious or owt, but it's basically a wide player that looks to take advantage of space. So a ... wide trequartista Isn't a wide player who looks to take advantage of space a winger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10963 Posted December 13, 2014 Author Share Posted December 13, 2014 Isn't a wide player who looks to take advantage of space a winger? Fair enough, But a raumdeuter is less about crosses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3966 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Fair enough, But a raumdeuter is less about crosses. I thought that was a vampire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10963 Posted December 13, 2014 Author Share Posted December 13, 2014 I thought that was a vampire. You think everyone is a vampire man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3966 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 You think everyone is a vampire man. No I don't. Some cunts are werewolves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Basically it's Thomas Muller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17648 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Away man Muller's a striker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Nah he's not originally. Played out wide more times in his career than anywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17648 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Wiki: Müller plays as a midfielder or forward, and has been deployed in a variety of attacking roles – as an attacking midfielder, second striker, centre forward and on either wing. He has been praised for his positioning, team work and stamina, and has shown consistency in scoring and creating goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 You know it was Muller who first introduced the term aye? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17648 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 (edited) I'd never heard the term before Fish put it in the title of this thread Wheres @@Meenzer when you need him for a translation?.. Edited December 14, 2014 by PaddockLad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 It's not a term anybody would use tbh but that's what his role when playing out wide has been described as. Basically just a goal poacher who plays out wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17648 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Thing is, thats the same sort of function on the pitch as Ronaldo and Bale but obviously all three play the role completely differently. I think attacking positions as I understood them 20 years ago are pretty much redundant now, everybody needs to be so much more flexible and innovative. A modern attacker has to have quite a few strings to his bow to be top class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15716 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 I'd never heard the term before Fish put it in the title of this thread Wheres @@Meenzer when you need him for a translation?.. I'm back at work tomorrow morning after a week off, don't make me come back on duty early man. Raumdeuter is literally an "interpreter of space" which apparently you can get away with describing yourself as if you're German. Imagine if an Arsenal player tried it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Thing is, thats the same sort of function on the pitch as Ronaldo and Bale but obviously all three play the role completely differently. I think attacking positions as I understood them 20 years ago are pretty much redundant now, everybody needs to be so much more flexible and innovative. A modern attacker has to have quite a few strings to his bow to be top class.Totally agree. Although because of that it's a shame that your classic goal hanger (Romario, Van Nistelrooy as two examples) has pretty much become redundant now at the top level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Hermione 14052 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 So, have we decided that we can definitely describe these positions in a less arsey way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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