TheDimpleboy 0 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 What percentage of UKIP policies do you agree with? Leaving the European Union. NHS (not that I trust them one iota on that like, but officially it looks fine). Controlling mass-immigration. Off the top of my head. Thankfully flat tax is out the window. Strongly disagree with grammar schools mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) Explain. Marx explained it many years ago. Capitalism's greatest wish is to create a hostage ecomony where the bargaining power of the host labour force is erased by the influx of cheaper and more desperate labour force. He also predictied the centralisation of decsision making and the rise of oligarchs and the concentration of wealth ie the EU and the multinational elites. He went on to say that this was Capitalism's weakness cause at some point the re-destribution of wealth would become so weak that the system would collapse from inertia. Bigger and bigger monopolies would appear and challenge the power and law making of soverign states (that has been ramping up for a couple of decades). The only thing he didn;t forsee was capitalism ability to borrow continually from the future (that is the phase we are in now). Even that can't go on and we see the system lumbering from one fiscal crisis to another. When they crippled the wealth distribution by moving manufacturing to China and so on...They replaced it with credit cards so people had the feeling they could still buy stuff...UK has the biggest personal debt on the planet. Edited March 17, 2015 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDimpleboy 0 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Not as much as the last two decades spent casualising huge swathes of the workforce in general iyam. A service based economy is always going to be fucked regarding collective bargaining, sadly, unless something huge happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30386 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Which is why we have the minimum wage and EU employment law that I have already outlined. Explain further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17136 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 A service based economy is always going to be fucked regarding collective bargaining, sadly, unless something huge happens well it's a bit chicken and egg then isn't it? We wouldn't have all these foreigners beating our doors down for jobs without hugely pliant labour laws in the first place and they're fuck all to do with the EU. Free movement into a market that is completely de regulated in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) Which is why we have the minimum wage and EU employment law that I have already outlined. Explain further. It's just pieces of paper and the black economy and work without contracts and the lack of baragining power has driven down wages in the UK and infact many jobs aren't even advertised in the UK... The black economy of Italy is bigger than the real economy. A lot of banks stay afloat with drug money and service cartels and crime. Wages against (buying power) has fallen in the West to 70's levels. THAT is another FACT. Capitalism was always seen as a holding mechanism. It's a passing phase and will be replaced. It will be replaced when the elites have full control of assets (not money). Sadly the left in the UK won't tell people the truth because most are now well off and part of a political class. If people really knew the truth then heads would be on spikes, Edited March 17, 2015 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5188 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Capitalism was always seen as a holding mechanism. It's a passing phase and will be replaced. It will be replaced when the elites have full control of assets (not money). Can you explain this bit more? I'm interested as to how this will be achieved and what will follow (genuinely)? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 well it's a bit chicken and egg then isn't it? We wouldn't have all these foreigners beating our doors down for jobs without hugely pliant labour laws in the first place and they're fuck all to do with the EU. Free movement into a market that is completely de regulated in the first place. I believe in free movement of Labour if there was a counter balance when one country is being sunk by the weight on its infastructure. If there was some kind of EU compensation that helped us build infastructure when it is clear to everyone that we're taking on too many people then that would be a step in the right direction. But there isn't..The Germans are laughing at us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) Can you explain this bit more? I'm interested as to how this will be achieved and what will follow (genuinely)? That's a really big question... On a very basic level multi-nationals (these are the new States) they are coutries if you like they suck up assets like water, oil, minerals, patents (even on food and our bodies) and intellectual property etc (thousands of farmers in India are comitting suicide every year cause they've lost control of their seeds)..It's what all this privatisation is about. The cycle is about using public money to build up assets - say railways or water networks and then privatise them at a much lower value than their actual cost, then these assets transfer from common ownership to private ownership... This has been really going down the last three decades...It gets to a point that it becomes harder for countries to raise money (but from private interlinked capital -the banks and multi-nationals who are in cahoots) and especially now as many big companies only pay a fraction of the tax they should pay...The populations of coutries start to become a drain rather than a benefit (this is starting to happen). This gets to a point where countries can't function - Greece, Argentina, Mexico (twice)...Pretty much the whole of Africa and soon more countries like Spain and so on...Japan will be an interesting one cause it has the oldest population for any advanced country...Once one big country becomes defunct there will be a chain reaction and the system will collapse (the money side).... ....Assets however are immune to this especially the natural ones everyone needs...Hence the gobbling up of these assests planet wide...Soverign debt will break the system it might be a big EU country or it might be America or Japan...I said about 10 years ago that the next big war would be against the banks and their forces...When we send troops to fight for oil we're fighting for companies...Just as Empire has little benefit for the common man these new wars have little benefit for us either... They will bring in a system of limited credit probably digitised, competition and growth will no longer be the watchword....SUSTAINABILITY WILL. Ring a bell? GREEN has always been the colour of our elite. Edited March 17, 2015 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 7011 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15449 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I don't like the sound of these 'ere boncentration bamps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) I don't like the sound of these 'ere boncentration bamps. Edited March 17, 2015 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17136 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I believe in free movement of Labour if there was a counter balance when one country is being sunk by the weight on its infastructure. If there was some kind of EU compensation that helped us build infastructure when it is clear to everyone that we're taking on too many people then that would be a step in the right direction. But there isn't..The Germans are laughing at us. So you're suggesting that the EU policy of free movement is being exploited more in the UK than anywhere else?....Is there a chance that's because the recruitment of skilled/semi skilled and non skilled manual labour had been handed on a plate to organised gangmasters in the shape of employment agencies a good decade and a half before Labour let the Poles in? My point is the conditions for the present situation were already in place and were nothing to do with the EU so the inherent casualisation of the labour force in the first place has had a greater effect than freedom of movement iyam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) So you're suggesting that the EU policy of free movement is being exploited more in the UK than anywhere else?....Is there a chance that's because the recruitment of skilled/semi skilled and non skilled manual labour had been handed on a plate to organised gangmasters in the shape of employment agencies a good decade and a half before Labour let the Poles in? My point is the conditions for the present situation were already in place and were nothing to do with the EU so the inherent casualisation of the labour force in the first place has had a greater effect than freedom of movement iyam. Totally agree with that. But we are where we are..We should be looking for massive rebates or some form of control. If the EU were serious and not just plain stupid or careless or didn't give a fuck...I'd imagine that monetery backstops would be inplace to help host economies cope with the influx of transient labour in the event of one country taking up too much of the slack. Try flying into Germany and getting free healthcare or a job without perfect German. No chance. All the Ghanian taxi drivers here talk about is when they are going to move to England. Edited March 17, 2015 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30386 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Ideological warfare on education/teachers isn't what I want. Real term NHS cuts, with mental health especially being decimated and existing as a skeleton service isn't what I want. Christopher Grayling's massive balls up with legal aid and prison's isn't what I want. IDS's sanctions on the most vulnerable in society aren't what I want. So why don't you vote for the Green Party? They tick all those boxes rather than your single issue party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3860 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 So why don't you vote for the Green Party? They tick all those boxes rather than your single issue party. Worse UKIP want more free schools a privatised NHS and more power to the wealthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorthernsoul 1221 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Who's ordered their copy of "The Purple Revolution" then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDimpleboy 0 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Worse UKIP want more free schools a privatised NHS and more power to the wealthy. A far as I'm aware UKIP's NHS policy is to ensure it is free at the point of use, and actually opposes the privatisation we saw under New Labour under the Private Finance Initiative agreements? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDimpleboy 0 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 So why don't you vote for the Green Party? They tick all those boxes rather than your single issue party. "MG203 Richer regions and communities do not have the right to use migration controls to protect their privileges from others in the long term" http://policy.greenparty.org.uk/mg.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30386 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I think that anyone who prioritises immigration to the exclusion of all other national issues is an idiot. You'll fit in well with UKIP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 32847 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I've been at work reading a bit of this thread so if I'm a few pages late, sorry. Dimps, me young mucker, can you tell me how things are going to be cushty darza for British workers under UKIP again? Can you tell me how a UKIP ran country, not in Europe would usher in new, strong trade unions to help the workers out? I do know that stuff like paid holidays and minimum wages were fought against by the Tories and I get the strange feeling that UKIP are a bit more to the right of politics than to the left. At least that's what I assume Farage meant when he said "I'm the only politician keeping the flame of Thatcherism alive". And we knew she was shit hot on good relations with trade unions don't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 32847 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 All them darkies coming over here, doing Islam at our white womens? Oh, and :lol: while I remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDimpleboy 0 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I think that anyone who prioritises immigration to the exclusion of all other national issues is an idiot. You'll fit in well with UKIP. Ironically attitudes like your own are what is driving people to vote UKIP in their droves. Tell a person that they are racist/stupid/thick/idiotic/bigoted/fascist often enough for holding a rational viewpoint, then they'll get fucked off and show it at the ballot box. Mass - Immigration wouldn't be at the top of the list for a lot of people if it wasn't for the fact that nobody asked for it, nobody voted for it, and the important part - it occurred on an absolutely unprecedented scale since the late 90's - and any opposition to it was shouted down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15449 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 If people cast their vote purely because they're offended that other people think they're thick, they're definitely thick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDimpleboy 0 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I've been at work reading a bit of this thread so if I'm a few pages late, sorry. Dimps, me young mucker, can you tell me how things are going to be cushty darza for British workers under UKIP again? Can you tell me how a UKIP ran country, not in Europe would usher in new, strong trade unions to help the workers out? I do know that stuff like paid holidays and minimum wages were fought against by the Tories and I get the strange feeling that UKIP are a bit more to the right of politics than to the left. At least that's what I assume Farage meant when he said "I'm the only politician keeping the flame of Thatcherism alive". And we knew she was shit hot on good relations with trade unions don't we? Well first off, UKIP will not win more than a couple of seats, if that - however I do reckon they'll win a very sizable chunk of that actual vote. So they won't actually have any influence as such, and certainly won't be forming the government, so the whole 'Under UKIP' guessing game is a bit redundant. A vote for UKIP, for me at least, is a vote for euro-skepticism, and a vote for tighter immigration controls. I could vote Labour/Lib Dem, but what would the point be? Labour are going to win my seat regardless, and at least if UKIP reduce the win margin a bit then I might actually hear from my MP, and she might get off her arse and fight for votes, rather than relying on a cushy safe-seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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