Kevin Carr's Gloves 3894 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Pissed tbh. Parky's view that racism is a 'tool of empire' is pure unmitigated bollocks. Animals differentiate and exclude others from their social groups on the basis of their appearance and colour. The notion that humans have learned to be divisive because of political intervention basically means we need a whole new narrative around evolution. So we should expect to behave like animals?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Yes, exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17257 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 So people are voting for ukip because of primeval evolutionary forces? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 9403 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Yes, exactly. It would be natural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 UKIP: Humans are like apes. Win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) Pissed tbh. Parky's view that racism is a 'tool of empire' is pure unmitigated bollocks. Animals differentiate and exclude others from their social groups on the basis of their appearance and colour. The notion that humans have learned to be divisive because of political intervention basically means we need a whole new narrative around evolution. The promotion of 'looking down on savages' wether it be in the Americas or Africa or India was a propoganda tool that served to legitamise wholesale looting and killing in those arenas. These are undisputed facts mon petie filou. Whichever way you look at it power promoted race superiority and religion and so on while it served their purposes. Of course when it didn't any longer it changed its tune. Your point about different groups being wary of each other by look, behaviour or colour is a defensive mechanism in so far as it served man and helped man survive thousands of years ago and I agree with that as it is valid, but this is light years away from the matter at hand...The manipulation of the modern psyche. Edited November 24, 2014 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 Civilising the empire. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQA2GQAiQ_4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17257 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Is Chez suggesting that in fact being prejudiced against a group different to ourselves is a trait which in modern times has been deliberately "unlearned"? by well meaning folks, and the rise of ukip is just some others reverting/giving in to some sort of ancient in built bio-chemical defensive mechanism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 You could argue that yes. UKIP and the like become prevalent when times are tough and the survival instinct kicks in. I would argue that evolution taught us to unlearn it so in a way it wasnt unlearnt, we evolved. Dunbar's number suggesta primitive groups grew to no more than 150 before some natural process kicked in and we started fighting. Evolution forced us into larger social conglomerates which has required us to cooperate. Depending on your point of view, that latter change is in the last moments of our DNA's history. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17257 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 But when our ancestors were off out murdering several different minorities to grab their land we had all the power anyway, we were the greatest empire the world had seen. That was nt ancient in built shit, that was just a desire for power and wealth. Agree that a reaction to hard times is often a lurch to the right (winter of discontent, rise of 30s facism after the great crash) but it's nothing in built in us naturally iyam, it's just another bunch of capitalist cunts wanting more power and money and scaring the crap out of the easily lead in order to get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 But when our ancestors were off out murdering several different minorities to grab their land we had all the power anyway, we were the greatest empire the world had seen. That was nt ancient in built shit, that was just a desire for power and wealth. Agree that a reaction to hard times is often a lurch to the right (winter of discontent, rise of 30s facism after the great crash) but it's nothing in built in us naturally iyam, it's just another bunch of capitalist cunts wanting more power and money and scaring the crap out of the easily lead in order to get it. The last para is spot on. I'd even go further and say that the first sentence is a result of timely cultural propaganda as well. The 'search for an enemy' is framed for us by power as a distraction to its long term aims and its short term failings. To my mind power has seen a long term exestensial threat coming from the EU vis a vie more regulations and its obsession with social fairness and inclusive legislation...Reams and reams of rights and directives and protectionism. In the short term the movement of cheap labour and the passing of mountains of governance has rid big industry of smaller competitiors who haven't the monies to enact such stuff, but in the long term power is beginning to wonder if the EU is soon coming for it. The EU being soft left and obsessed with centralisation has twitched the nerve of power who now is reaching a phase where it doesn't need labour so much anymore to make money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Whilst i appreciate what you're both saying, you're obviously wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3894 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 But when our ancestors were off out murdering several different minorities to grab their land we had all the power anyway, we were the greatest empire the world had seen. That was nt ancient in built shit, that was just a desire for power and wealth. Agree that a reaction to hard times is often a lurch to the right (winter of discontent, rise of 30s facism after the great crash) but it's nothing in built in us naturally iyam, it's just another bunch of capitalist cunts wanting more power and money and scaring the crap out of the easily lead in order to get it. Really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 9403 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Chez is correct, it's got nothing to do with do with "modern" empires or thirst for power/glory/wealth or anything of the like, since time immemorial it's simply the natural order of things. Look out of your window, everything you see is trying to survive at the expense of something else, mankind is different in that it has tried to, or aspires to, help the "weaker" members of it's society, it's laudable but at the same time wholly unnatural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 Chez is correct, it's got nothing to do with do with "modern" empires or thirst for power/glory/wealth or anything of the like, since time immemorial it's simply the natural order of things. Look out of your window, everything you see is trying to survive at the expense of something else, mankind is different in that it has tried to, or aspires to, help the "weaker" members of it's society, it's laudable but at the same time wholly unnatural. People carting out this old eugenics nonsense in this day and age. Society is trained. IF you and Chez were correct we'd be killing our leaders every few months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) Whilst i appreciate what you're both saying, you're obviously wrong. Not saying it isn't ingrained (in the ole lizard brain) saying that the trigger and framing of it is now wholly cultural and not noises in the woods at night. We all reach unconsciously to skin colour but that only gives a framework for a behavioural response, it isn't a concrete framework for racism. Edited November 24, 2014 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) It wasn't so long ago Galton Darwin was trawling the East end in his search for cockney criminal shaped skulls. I'd like to think we've moved on a bit from that. Edited November 24, 2014 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17257 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Chez and Toonpack seem to be suggesting that Hitler and Stalin just couldn't help themselves because "it's just the way of things"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17257 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 It wasn't so long ago Galton Darwin was trawling the East end in his search for cockney criminal shaped skulls. I'd like to think we've moved on a bit from that. This has all turned a bit unpleasant... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) Chez and Toonpack seem to be suggesting that Hitler and Stalin just couldn't help themselves because "it's just the way of things"? Monkeys innit. Edited November 24, 2014 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4384 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Chez is correct, it's got nothing to do with do with "modern" empires or thirst for power/glory/wealth or anything of the like, since time immemorial it's simply the natural order of things. Look out of your window, everything you see is trying to survive at the expense of something else, mankind is different in that it has tried to, or aspires to, help the "weaker" members of it's society, it's laudable but at the same time wholly unnatural. We only became the dominant species due to cooperation. Nothing unnatural about it. Of course we may have gone beyond the truly natural limits as Chez is suggesting but I like to think we've evolved further as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 9403 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 People carting out this old eugenics nonsense in this day and age. Society is trained. IF you and Chez were correct we'd be killing our leaders every few months. In some places they do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 In some places they do You'll have to offer a case study for my consideration fella. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 9403 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) We only became the dominant species due to cooperation. Nothing unnatural about it. Of course we may have gone beyond the truly natural limits as Chez is suggesting but I like to think we've evolved further as well. All social animals cooperate, cooperation in itself has little to do with it. Mankind has developed (in some places) a social conscience, it's not particularly "normal" though in the everyday natural world. Edited November 24, 2014 by Toonpack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4384 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 All social animals cooperate, cooperation in itself has little to do with it. Mankind has developed (in some places) a social conscience, it's not "normal" though in the everyday natural world. I'd argue its that cooperation combined with the brain development that sets us apart from the rest of the natural world. All the successful civilisations have had a social conscience as you put it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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