Dr Gloom 22149 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 He's a good manager and will win trophies at clubs that are geared up for it. Special? Nah. There's nothing that special about the football his teams play. Often overly negative. The way he deflects attention away from his team and on to him is clever and he's obviously a good man manager but he's no genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 22149 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) Clough was the real special one. Mourinho should pipe down till he's won the treble with Doncater Rovers Edited November 14, 2014 by Dr Gloom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 22149 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 By the same logic Messi isn't that special either. Of course he can do it playing with some of the world's best but until he's done it on a wet Wednesday night in Stoke with Gouffran and Obertan providing the service then the jury is out. Obviously a class player but he never won trophies as far as I'm aware playing for ordinary sides like Maradona did, so not as special. Plus he never scored a goal at the World Cup while charged up off his face on chang, clearly the more special achievement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonasjuice 0 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Whatever you think of his style football, results/trophy wise he's unquestionably 'special' if your accepting being in say the Top 5 club managers of the last 15 years as 'special'. Depends how special your classing special as I suppose. Â His achievements with Porto weren't due to cash, Inter were hardly throwing hundreds of millions around and while he's been well funded at Chelsea and Madrid, it's not like he's been competing against poor little minnows in those leagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35583 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Clough was the real special one. Mourinho should pipe down till he's won the treble with Doncater Rovers What was special about Clough's achievements without Peter Taylor though? His record with him includes league titles with two different provincial clubs. Reaching the European Cup semis with one (Derby) and the two European Cups won with Forest. Without Taylor he managed a relatively paltry two league cup wins over a longer period of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 22149 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 What was special about Clough's achievements without Peter Taylor though? His record with him includes league titles with two different provincial clubs. Reaching the European Cup semis with one (Derby) and the two European Cups won with Forest. Without Taylor he managed a relatively paltry two league cup wins over a longer period of time. the special two then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 22149 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Whatever you think of his style football, results/trophy wise he's unquestionably 'special' if your accepting being in say the Top 5 club managers of the last 15 years as 'special'. Depends how special your classing special as I suppose. Â His achievements with Porto weren't due to cash, Inter were hardly throwing hundreds of millions around and while he's been well funded at Chelsea and Madrid, it's not like he's been competing against poor little minnows in those leagues. Â winning the portuguese league with porto is a comparable to winning the scottish league with celtic, or rangers before they went tits up - not that impressive really. the champions league win with porto is by far the most impressive thing on his cv. from there on he's gone on from one well funded club to another. not that i blame him for this or anything, i'd probably do the same in his shoes. to be honest, if you weren't affiliated with a club like ours - or desperate for work - you'd be daft to touch us. Â he's up there alongside the best coaches of the last ten or 15 years, yes. but i don't think there's anything that sets him apart as special from the likes of ancelotti, ferguson, van gaal at el. plus his football is probably the most tedious to watch. he is probably the best at manipulating the media and getting under the skin of opposition managers since ferguson but would he be able to play the mind games as effectively at a club like ours? Â it's mourinho that bangs on about being special, but would he have us challenging the top 4 though on our meagre budget? i'd have more hope of him doing that than others because of his achievements elsewhere but who knows because he's never fancied the challenge? i'd like to see a manager take a punt on their own ability for once and take a really shit job (like us under ashley), just to see if they're really what they think they're cracked up to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10964 Posted November 14, 2014 Author Share Posted November 14, 2014 I think it's the reaction of the players to his stewardship that marks him, in my eyes, as special. He's got Eden Hazard grafting and sacrificing for the team, I don't believe he'd stick with a player who wasn't performing (Mata), He certainly gets into the heads of other coaches, comfortable using the media to fit his agenda. Â He's the modern manager if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 22149 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 dull football though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Obviously a class player but he never won trophies as far as I'm aware playing for ordinary sides like Maradona did, so not as special. Plus he never scored a goal at the World Cup while charged up off his face on chang, clearly the more special achievement  What a dreadful argument that is man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 31201 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 More league goals than any other team this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I wouldn't say that it was a miracle that Mourinho won the Champions League with Inter. I know they have a history of underachieving as a club (and were shite when Mancini had them in it) but it's not like they had a poor team or anything. He had the likes of a Sneijder in his prime, Cambiasso, Zanetti (after Maldini the best full-back I've seen), Walter Samuel, Lucio (who was underrated as fuck), Maicon (who was brilliant before Bale rinsed him), Eto'o and Julio Cesar was one of the best keeprs in the world at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Mourinho's fucking great at managing in the bigger games man. Seems to get his tactics spot on for a lot of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 22149 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Â What a dreadful argument that is man. Â maradona winning trophies for very ordinary napoli and argentina teams is way more impressive then messi winning titles for possibly the greatest barcelona team ever, especially considering maradona was coked up to the eyeballs, smoking cigars and getting shitfaced with mafiosos at the time while messi is teetotal and survives on a nutritionist-prescribed diet of lean chicken breasts and steamed broccoli. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 22149 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 the special one  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35583 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) Â maradona winning trophies for very ordinary napoli and argentina teams is way more impressive then messi winning titles for possibly the greatest barcelona team ever, especially considering maradona was coked up to the eyeballs, smoking cigars and getting shitfaced with mafiosos at the time while messi is teetotal and survives on a nutritionist-prescribed diet of lean chicken breasts and steamed broccoli. The very ordinary Napoli side that include Ciro Ferrara, Careca and Alemao? Give over man. Edited November 14, 2014 by Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 22149 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) The very ordinary Napoli side that include Ciro Ferrara, Careca and Alemao? To name but 3. Give over man. Â it was hardly the same as messi signing for barca. napoli had never won the title before he joined and were often in the relegation mix. they finished 10th or something in his first season. without signing for them i doubt they'd have won the league. same goes for that argie side, he lifted them to the world cup title in 86 and a world cup final in 90. neither of those sides would have been close to that without him, imo. all the while he was getting pissed, snorting chang and eating like a pig. imagine if he'd lived clean man. best player ever Edited November 14, 2014 by Dr Gloom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Maradona couldn't dream of scoring over 90 goals in a calendar year. Argument over. That's how this works isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 22149 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) imagine how many he would have scored if he wasn't off his tits the whole time Edited November 14, 2014 by Dr Gloom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Clough was the real special one. Mourinho should pipe down till he's won the treble with Doncater Rovers Clough done a good job, but there was 60 clubs in English football who were big enough to win trophies in those days. The fact the likes of Derby and Nottingham Forest, Leeds who used to be tiny pre-60s, won titles, the likes of Ipswich won European Trophies shows quite clearly football in those days was more of an even level playing field. You had 40 clubs in my view, who if managed correctly from top to bottom with the right men in charge, could actually have been English Champions. That is in no way talking shite. Even Watford and Southampton CAME SECOND. Â In my eyes, my deluded eyes, the only clubs who are clearly out of our league historically and support wise are Arsenal, Man Utd and Liverpool. After that it's a fact we get the ELEVENTH best crowds in Europe, we're TWENTIETH richest in Europe, and we have absolutely fuck all hope of winning the Champions League at this moment in time. It's changed. The battle at the top of world football is now so intense, if we're honest could more than 10 clubs win the Champions League now? Like shite. Football's changed, and Mourinho has done as well if not better than Clough. Porto ffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Maradona couldn't dream of scoring over 90 goals in a calendar year. Argument over. That's how this works isn't it? If Maradona played now he could. In the 80s managers would literally say to centre halfs, "right kick that cunt to fuck", especially in Italy. Argentina played Italy in the 1982 World Cup and Giantile kicked Maradona out of the game so badly, in modern day football he'd have been sent off 4 times in the game. It was all like that in Serie A too for years yet he was still helping a club who had won fuck all ever to two titles in three years. In modern football Maradona would've been every bit as good as Messi if not better, as long as he left the toot alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimaad22 4222 Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 While we're musing the ifs and buts. The chance in the final, the only real one Messi had that went a foot wide of the post, had that gone in this argument might have been settled for ever. I really dont know a lot about football from those days, so how does the Argentina side from this summer compare to the one that won it with Maradona? You could argue it had other world class players like Di Maria and Aguero in the team but they weren't able to make a significant impact at all in the end. Â I dont really buy into the whole Mourinho football is boring argument. Sometimes he does go out and set up to get a result, but its fascinating. Not entertaining as the gung ho approach everyone loves perhaps but certainly intriguing or engrossing, definitely not boring as far as Im concerned. Then again they have been scoring a lot of goals as well since he's come back. The Everton Chelsea game is probably the best one so far this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 22149 Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 I'd love him to bits if he was our manager, not that that's ever likely to happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35583 Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Â it was hardly the same as messi signing for barca. napoli had never won the title before he joined and were often in the relegation mix. they finished 10th or something in his first season. without signing for them i doubt they'd have won the league. same goes for that argie side, he lifted them to the world cup title in 86 and a world cup final in 90. neither of those sides would have been close to that without him, imo. all the while he was getting pissed, snorting chang and eating like a pig. imagine if he'd lived clean man. best player ever Yeah, but they weren't a very ordinary side. That's bollocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 22149 Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Yeah, but they weren't a very ordinary side. That's bollocks. Compared to messi's barca they were, very much so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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