toonotl 2916 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Janmaat has been poor defensively so far, I think there is a good defender in there though. Maybe needs longer to settle, but we said that about Mbiwa. Nah, shit! The both of them. <Insert four paragraphs of poorly punctuated bullshit> Something something mackems! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howay 12496 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2204 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Nah, shit! The both of them. <Insert four paragraphs of poorly punctuated bullshit> Something something mackems! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essembeeofsunderland 811 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 If you haven't understood what defending is all about at 25 you never will.Our defence could get a lot worse by the way because Santon will soon be fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 34718 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 If you haven't understood what defending is all about at 25 you never will.Our defence could get a lot worse by the way because Santon will soon be fit. How old are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10659 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 If you haven't understood what defending is all about at 25 you never will.Our defence could get a lot worse by the way because Santon will soon be fit. Weren't you saying that Mbiwa struggled because of the difference between the Dutch and Enlighs league? So perhaps defending at a new club in a new league is something that requires time to adjust to? As pretty much every new defender we sign reflects? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essembeeofsunderland 811 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 He `struggled' for a number of reasons.He never adapted to the hustle and bustle of the prem .He never fancied fighting fire with fire on this front.He couldn't win a header to save his life.It looked like he didn't want to win headers.His positional play was awful.This had nothing to do with moving from one league to another.Many on here wanted him to be given a chance at fulback.No reasons why mind.He was and he was equally rubbish.His admirers on here now say he was rubbish at fulback because he was being played out of position .I would like a reason or reasons why a player who was so shit for us has so many people defending him for being so shit,without saying he was shit.It seems none of it was down to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10659 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 He `struggled' for a number of reasons.He never adapted to the hustle and bustle of the prem .He never fancied fighting fire with fire on this front.He couldn't win a header to save his life.It looked like he didn't want to win headers.His positional play was awful.This had nothing to do with moving from one league to another.Many on here wanted him to be given a chance at fulback.No reasons why mind.He was and he was equally rubbish.His admirers on here now say he was rubbish at fulback because he was being played out of position .I would like a reason or reasons why a player who was so shit for us has so many people defending him for being so shit,without saying he was shit.It seems none of it was down to him. I honestly cannot decipher this post. It contradicts itself within 6 "sentences". It builds strawman arguments. It's a mess. sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essembeeofsunderland 811 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 You do have a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10659 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Lets boil it down to this; You didn't/don't rate Mbiwa Everybody else did They also said that any central defender would require time to adjust to the Premier League (you yourself have admitted that). They suggested his poor performances at fullback (where nobody wanted him to play) were because he's not a fullback. They point to his excellent performances pre and post Newcastle as evidence that he's demonstrably not a bad player You didn't/don't rate Janmaat A lot of people do They say any defender would require time to adjust to the Premier League They suggest his average performances at fullback as mainly due to his inexperience in this league and the paucity of talent around him. They point to his notable career pre Newcastle as evidence that he's demonstrably not a bad player. Simply calling someone shit, does not make it so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4355 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Hate to say it but the common factor to his shit players is being foreign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADP 0 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 (edited) I said after the Palace game that it looked like Pardew had drilled it into them to be terrified of Zaha and I think in general this is one of his tactical plans. He focuses so much on what the opponents can do and how to stop them that he forgets that the best way is to keep the ball away from them by enforcing our game onto them. It's like he's trying to be some sort of tactical genius in finding ways to nulify the oppostion but all that ends up doing is inviting teams onto us. Well, yeah. He's an incredibly conservative coach. I think football has moved so rapidly in terms of tactical evolution in the past few years that that level of conservatism is no longer passable at this level, it has changed since the 5th place finish. Strange enough, we aren't good enough to play conservatively. One of the biggest issues I have with Pardew is that he flat out refuses to play to our strengths. Instead he has always chosen to stratify to try to incorporate the opponent's threat as the basis of any strategy or tactic. I'll never like Pardew, but he would go a long way to changing my opinion (which I'm sure he will want to...) of him as manager if he took a few more risks. His subs on Sunday were be a good start. Not holding my breath though. Expecting a hiding off Rodgers, as the antithesis of Pardew in many respects. Neither manager can find a balance between conservative and risk tactics, it is absolutely one at the expense of the other. Something the top clubs in Europe have managed to do in the last few years. Only Chelsea are even close to doing this in the PL imo. Edited October 28, 2014 by ADP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorthernsoul 1221 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Well, yeah. He's an incredibly conservative coach. I think football has moved so rapidly in terms of tactical evolution in the past few years that that level of conservatism is no longer passable at this level, it has changed since the 5th place finish. Strange enough, we aren't good enough to play conservatively. One of the biggest issues I have with Pardew is that he flat out refuses to play to our strengths. Instead he has always chosen to stratify to try to incorporate the opponent's threat as the basis of any strategy or tactic. I'll never like Pardew, but he would go a long way to changing my opinion (which I'm sure he will want to...) of him as manager if he took a few more risks. His subs on Sunday were be a good start. Not holding my breath though. Expecting a hiding off Rodgers, as the antithesis of Pardew in many respects. Neither manager can find a balance between conservative and risk tactics, it is absolutely one at the expense of the other. Something the top clubs in Europe have managed to do in the last few years. Only Chelsea are even close to doing this in the PL imo. Bang on there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essembeeofsunderland 811 Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) Are you saying Janmaat isn't shit for us because he was a good player before he signed .If so, Barnes and Rush weren't shit for us then. `Everyone did rate Mbiwa' . Everyone ? Edited October 29, 2014 by essembeeofsunderland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 34718 Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10659 Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Are you saying Janmaat isn't shit for us because he was a good player before he signed .If so, Barnes and Rush weren't shit for us then. `Everyone did rate Mbiwa' . Everyone ? Are you fucking serious? You're suggesting that all of Janmaat's ability has disappeared in one summer, in much the same way as Rush and Barnes' ability diminished over decades? Just think about something; Mbiwa is playing Champions League football for Italy's 2nd placed side. He's not looking out of place at all, in fact he's their highest rated defender on whoscored.com. He's not being played out of position and is working with Rudie Garcia instead of Alan fucking Pardew. up against all of that, is the fact that you, essembeeofsunderland, don't rate him. Who do you reckon is right? Evidence and fact? or you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essembeeofsunderland 811 Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Did you regularly watch dutch league football last season,or the season before,or the season before that.I didn't,so i am commenting on what i have seen this season.Janmaat is shit at defending.If we'd signed Messi ( or McClean ) in the summer and he'd been shit for us,it means he's been shit for us.Are you keeping up with me. Now on to Mbiwa.Did you regularly watch him in french football before we signed him,either the season before we signed him,the season before that or the season before that ? I didn't so i am commenting on what i saw when he played for us.He was shit at both fulback and central defence.Are you saying he wasn't shit because of the players he was playing with,being played out of position and/or because Pardew was the manager.Again excuses/reasons are being put forward why he was shit for us but without saying he was.Does `looking out of place' mean he was shit ? He was played out of position ( given a chance in another position ) because he was shit in his prefered/best position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10659 Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Ahhh, so what your rambling posts are supposed to be saying is "Mbiwa isn't shit but didn't play well for us" Is that what they're saying? So when you said "He's shit" what you meant was "He's not playing as well as we know he can, I wonder why that can be?" Similarly with Janmaat, you're not saying he's shit at defending, you're saying that, currently, he's not performing to the high standards we expect of him. I'd agree with all of that, however, I'd say that given they're both good players and have performed well before we signed them, there must be a reason why they struggled/are struggling at Newcastle. The few things that have stayed constant for both are the coaching, the overall morale of the side and the tactics, however there are differences as well. For example Mbiwa was played out of position whereas Janmaat is not. Now that MYM is being played as a centre back, he's performing well. How this fails to break into your assessment of him, is a mystery. Either "he's shit" and has somehow had a career which defies his lack of ability, or the time spent at Newcastle is an aberration and he's not a shit player, but was misused by Pardew. Janmaat, like Debuhcy before him, is getting used to the Premier League and shouldn't be dismissed as "shit" given all the other myriad factors that can affect a player; tactics, morale, coaching, standard of colleague, etc. I think the overarching point should be this; stop viewing players through a microscope, and be aware of the bigger picture and you'll be better able to assess their true standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acrossthepond 866 Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I think the Mbwia/Janmaat shit or not shit debate needs to take a backseat to a much more important issue - whether or not essembee can learn how to use a fucking apostrophe. You seem to get it right when you close the quote, so why can't you use the correct one to open it, you ````ing moron? (For my two cents' worth, Mbiwa didn't magically turn to shit in a season and a half at NUFC. His poor performances were a result of being played out position and never having a decent run in the team. And Janmaat will turn out like most class foreign defenders do when they first arrive in the PL - dodgy at the start before finding their feet, much like Debuchy, Colo, and Enrique to name a few from recent years.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10659 Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 34718 Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Did you regularly watch dutch league football last season,or the season before,or the season before that.I didn't,so i am commenting on what i have seen this season.Janmaat is shit at defending.If we'd signed Messi ( or McClean ) in the summer and he'd been shit for us,it means he's been shit for us.Are you keeping up with me. Now on to Mbiwa.Did you regularly watch him in french football before we signed him,either the season before we signed him,the season before that or the season before that ? I didn't so i am commenting on what i saw when he played for us.He was shit at both fulback and central defence.Are you saying he wasn't shit because of the players he was playing with,being played out of position and/or because Pardew was the manager.Again excuses/reasons are being put forward why he was shit for us but without saying he was.Does `looking out of place' mean he was shit ? He was played out of position ( given a chance in another position ) because he was shit in his prefered/best position. Do you know where astronauts go to get drunk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane 3 Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Janmaat unfortunately for him is as much a victim of the useless cunt in front of him. Neither squidward nor Cabella have contributed much in the way of tracking back when playing RM and Sunday was no different, just look at how much room Rose was afforded going forward, not that thread killer, qu'est ce que c'est, would have seen that from the stadium of shite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44094 Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Do you know where astronauts go to get drunk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10659 Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Janmaat unfortunately for him is as much a victim of the useless cunt in front of him. Neither squidward nor Cabella have contributed much in the way of tracking back when playing RM and Sunday was no different, just look at how much room Rose was afforded going forward, not that thread killer, qu'est ce que c'est, would have seen that from the stadium of shite. Hasn't Gouffran or Sissoko been the primary right sided midfielders that've played in front of Janmaat? Neither known for shirking their defensive duties. Janmaat is struggling because, in my opinion, he's not used to having to attack and defend simultaneously for 90 minutes. We're a team that invites pressure and expects our fullbacks to aid the attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15345 Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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