The Cricket Thread

[toonotl 2916]

Smith is taking the piss here.

[Dr Gloom 21760]

Well that was a truly pathetic collapse, even by England's standards. There's no shame in losing to the Aussies but not one of them showed any character. Massive momentum shift going into edgo, we look shit scared of Johnson again too, all of a sudden.

 

Cook said he'd like a proper English wicket prepared in Birmingham. I agree.

[toonotl 2916]

Just woke up so I didn't see anything from about 3 or 4 down. Judging by the score though it seems like it was a mauling.

 

Yeah. Johnson bowled well in both innings and looked as though he's found his groove.

 

What's the Edgbaston wicket like generally in terms of bounce? I heard it's dry and takes spin, but what's in it for the quicks?

[Dr Gloom 21760]

It's generally on the slow side but the ground has one of the best atmospheres in the country and we usually do well there.

 

All depends on the groundsman. It usually gets better for batting as the game progresses so a lot of captains choose to bowl first, not always with great success (like Ponting in 05!)

 

But I remember the last test there against India, the surface had a green top and we put them in then went to win by a big total.

[toonotl 2916]

Right. Sounds like its the perfect venue to play at next for England because they are going to need to get their shit together quickly.

 

Do you reckon England will drop anyone? Lyth may be on the chopping block, which I think is a bit unfair given he's just come into the side, but he could go. Anyone else? Bell? Ballance?

 

Personally, I don't think anyone deserves to be dropped in the England side, but we may as well shoot the breeze about it given we've got a week.

[Dr Gloom 21760]

I think Lyth and Ballance are both in trouble, the issue is who plays at 1 and 3 in their place and whether the selectors will have the balls to make big changes (like Australia did after the first test.) Our selectors have been quite conservative over the last decade or so and don't like to chop and change in the middle of a series.

 

Bairstow has to be knocking at the door if you're going on form alone but he's been shown up before against the Aussies to be vulnerable to the short ball and if he came in, he'd have to be as low as 6, with the top order reshuffled.

 

I'd give Alex Hales a go ahead of Lyth, who is clearly struggling with the jump up from county cricket, but it's far from certain Hales could make it in the longer form as well. So definitely advantage Australia - momentum can shift so quickly. If they win the next one, I reckon they will go home with the urn. Can't see us winning three tests to regain the ashes.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Dr Gloom

[toonotl 2916]

I think you're right about the next test being the most important of the series.

 

I haven't seen much of Hales, but from what I have seen, I'm not convinced.

 

Would you consider moving Ballance to opener, Root to 3 and bringing Bairstow into the side as an option? It means you just make one change.

 

I think with Ballance being horribly out of form moving him around the batting order could be just the fresh start he needs.Of course it could also go horribly wrong and you lose the next match and probably the series because of it. Probably not the sort of change you'd want to be making with the series in the balance. For some reason though, Ballance reminds me of Justin Langer, and I think he could make a go of it as a gritty opener. Another problem of course is that you then have two rather slow scoring openers in Cook and Ballance, which isn't really the fashion these days. I don't know. Probably a stupid idea, but its just something I thought could be something a little out of the box.

 

It's tricky for England. You've got a good side, but there doesn't seem to be all that many good options waiting in the wings.

[Gemmill 44112]

toonotl trying to fashion a role for himself as the Fish of the cricket thread. Gloom taking up the David Kelly duties.

[Dr Gloom 21760]

[Dr Gloom 21760]

I think you're right about the next test being the most important of the series.

 

I haven't seen much of Hales, but from what I have seen, I'm not convinced.

 

Would you consider moving Ballance to opener, Root to 3 and bringing Bairstow into the side as an option? It means you just make one change.

 

I think with Ballance being horribly out of form moving him around the batting order could be just the fresh start he needs.Of course it could also go horribly wrong and you lose the next match and probably the series because of it. Probably not the sort of change you'd want to be making with the series in the balance. For some reason though, Ballance reminds me of Justin Langer, and I think he could make a go of it as a gritty opener. Another problem of course is that you then have two rather slow scoring openers in Cook and Ballance, which isn't really the fashion these days. I don't know. Probably a stupid idea, but its just something I thought could be something a little out of the box.

 

It's tricky for England. You've got a good side, but there doesn't seem to be all that many good options waiting in the wings.

 

i'm not convinced by Ballance at 3, let alone an opener. he looks like a number 5 or 6 to me. though i don't object to the idea of two run accumulators capable of seeing off the new ball at the top of the order (it worked well with strauss and cook for a long time), particularly with the number of strokemakers lower down the order

 

3 is root's position for his county, but as others have said, he's made a lot of runs at 5, so moving him up the order would be a big call, but one you'd haver to consider if someone like bairstow comes in for ballance. i think moeen is batting way lower than he's capable of too.

 

i do think changes are needed though. we've lost 3 or 4 wickets for less than 50 runs in every test match this year. it isn't working and you can't rely on the middle order to get you out of trouble every time against a pace attack as good as australia's.

[toonotl 2916]

toonotl trying to fashion a role for himself as the Fish of the cricket thread. Gloom taking up the David Kelly duties.

 

Nothing you say can effect me Gemmers. You're just a name on a screen to me anyway. I'm not bothered. I'm not bothered. I'm not bothered.

[toonotl 2916]

 

i'm not convinced by Ballance at 3, let alone an opener. he looks like a number 5 or 6 to me. though i don't object to the idea of two run accumulators capable of seeing off the new ball at the top of the order (it worked well with strauss and cook for a long time), particularly with the number of strokemakers lower down the order

 

3 is root's position for his county, but as others have said, he's made a lot of runs at 5, so moving him up the order would be a big call, but one you'd haver to consider if someone like bairstow comes in for ballance. i think moeen is batting way lower than he's capable of too.

 

i do think changes are needed though. we've lost 3 or 4 wickets for less than 50 runs in every test match this year. it isn't working and you can't rely on the middle order to get you out of trouble every time against a pace attack as good as australia's.

Yeah. I think on the whole at the moment, as far as the ECB is concerned, Ballance needs to score some runs at three or he's getting dropped. If he's already done his dash then Root to 3 is about the only option.

 

By the by, no way is Lyth 27. He looks 50. Seriously though I feel sorry for the guy and I feel like he's simply going to be the fall guy for a very bad England performance. I saw his wicket second innings and he got a very good ball. Not much he could have done.

 

Just on Ballance again I think maybe some time away in county cricket to get his confidence back would do him some good. I think he has the potential to be a brilliant Test cricketer. Hopefully he doesn't go the way of his countryman, Graeme Hick, scoring a lot of first class runs, but failing to really crack it at Test level.

[Alex 34725]

Nice of England to give the Aussies the chance to watch the golf.

[Dr Gloom 21760]

which was the four day and which one was the five day game, again?

[sammynb 3342]

Beware people.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAgLhr6sHtc

[David Kelly 1217]

toonotl trying to fashion a role for himself as the Fish of the cricket thread. Gloom taking up the David Kelly duties.

 

That was fucking brutal yesterday. I'd be scared of them getting to bat first in the next test regardless of where it is. We didn't have anything near the bottle to deal with chasing down a massive total (or even battling out a draw). For all of the positives there have been in English cricket in the last few months, there's big issues with the top order. Only Cook and Root look good enough (we know Bell was but his form is as bad or worse than Cooks had been). I can't see that there's many obvious replacements out there unless we move Root further up (which seems like the sensible thing to do given that it's usually been down to him to try and rescue us when we're 3 for 30) and bring Bairstow or Rshid in further back (and possibly move Moeen up too). Think we have to stick with Lythe though. He's only in his second test series (should have been his third but for the stupidity in the West Indies) so he needs to be given a chance.

[Alex 34725]

Trouble is with Bell that he's got most of his runs and has a better average batting at 5 and 6 but those aren't problem positions for England.

[David Kelly 1217]

Trouble is with Bell that he's got most of his runs and has a better average batting at 5 and 6 but those aren't problem positions for England.

Edgbaston is his home ground so he's definitely worth sticking with for the next test. I'd move Root up to 3 so Bell's coming in after him and possibly bring in Rashid as a second spinner in place of Ballance and bring Ali further up the order.

[Alex 34725]

I think they'll pick the same side.

[Dr Gloom 21760]

the lack of a proper spinner is an issue. i haven't seen enough of rashid to judge - is he test match quality? moeen could arguably play int he middle order ahead of someone like balance as a specialist batter/part time spinner. it's a bit harsh to expect moeen to bowl us to victory when he's still learning his trade.

[Dr Gloom 21760]

I think they'll pick the same side.

 

ridiculously conservative if they do given the form of the top order this year.

[sammynb 3342]

TBH England has to worry as much about their bowling attack as they do their batters based on the Lords match.

The fact the Australian pace was able to get some movement out of the wicket whereas England couldn't - also the difference between line and length.

Look at how many inside edge wickets England gave away.

[David Kelly 1217]

I think there's a fair chance we'll stick with the same side. I can't see more than one change for sure and I think there's a fair chance of it being Rashid for Ballance if there is one. I can't see much point in bringing Bairstow into the middle order when clearly that isn't the problem area.

 

I agree the bowling was poor at lords but there's no way we're going to swap out Broad, Anderson or Stokes and Wood was as good as any of them so I don't expect a chance there other than perhaps the extra spinner.

[Dr Gloom 21760]

it's the top order batting that's the main issue. something has to be done there - either drop a player or two, or rejig the order. we took 20 wickets in cardiff so the bowlers deserve another chance.

[toonotl 2916]

TBH England has to worry as much about their bowling attack as they do their batters based on the Lords match.

The fact the Australian pace was able to get some movement out of the wicket whereas England couldn't - also the difference between line and length.

Look at how many inside edge wickets England gave away.

 

I think England's bowlers had a bad match. England's batsmen have had bad matches.

 

In my opinion, there's no need for England to be thinking about changing their bowling attack. Unless they can pull a legitimate test match spin bowler from somewhere in the next week.