Alex 35082 Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 Which would’ve been a better result Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 9404 Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: the conventional approach would have been to bat on until root got out. he may have surived another half a session or 50/60 runs the way he was batting - even with the tail. that would have made the draw the most likely result. As Alex says, much better than a loss in the first game when you have to win the series, and there is no way on gods green earth, or in the history of the game, that any position at the end of day one has draw as the most likely result (outside of something like 200 for none) and we're only talking about 6 overs, no-one's mentioned "half a session". Edited June 21, 2023 by Toonpack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35082 Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 It wasn’t likely conditions for getting wickets but I do agree the declaration was a relatively minor factor. It might’ve worked. I think it was daft in terms of risk reward though. Pandering to the ego of a man child like Bairstow on the other hand….they got precisely the result they deserved for that call Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21923 Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 52 minutes ago, Alex said: Which would’ve been a better result yup, that's the risk by playing this aggressively. by taking the draw out of the equation, you increase your chance of winning, and losing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21923 Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 53 minutes ago, Toonpack said: As Alex says, much better than a loss in the first game when you have to win the series, and there is no way on gods green earth, or in the history of the game, that any position at the end of day one has draw as the most likely result (outside of something like 200 for none) and we're only talking about 6 overs, no-one's mentioned "half a session". I mentioned half a session. The conventional approach would have been to bat on in the first innings to get as many runs as possible. Root was in great touch and could have easily batted for another hour into the next morning if broad had stuck around with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44879 Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 Lads no one is going to win this argument. I'll check in this time tomorrow and see how it's going though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 9404 Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 30 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: I mentioned half a session. The conventional approach would have been to bat on in the first innings to get as many runs as possible. Root was in great touch and could have easily batted for another hour into the next morning if broad had stuck around with him. (Robinson - Broad was out) No-one was asking for a "bat on tomorrow" but first innings, first day, you just don't give runs away, to do so ONLY increases your chance of losing, not winning. It was a "look at us we're billy big bollocks" move, not a tactically adept move, that's why I have a problem with it, it was drama for the sake of drama and I'd still have a problem with it if we'd won. If it had been Broad and Robinson different story because that's not going to get you much more 9 out of 10 times so yeah sure, have a pop at them last thing, but Root was on absolute fire, shit he could have taken us to 450 (which most were saying was par at start of play), we wrapped in a decent chunk under par. The rate we score at, we get a conventional day and a half's runs in a day anyway, but let's just make that number as high as we can eh?. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21923 Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Gemmill said: Lads no one is going to win this argument. I'll check in this time tomorrow and see how it's going though. oi. you said you were on my side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21923 Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Toonpack said: (Robinson - Broad was out) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinRobin 11270 Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 14 hours ago, Alex said: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35082 Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 18 hours ago, Gemmill said: Lads no one is going to win this argument. I'll check in this time tomorrow and see how it's going though. Well what’s kind of daft is it had to be conventional or ‘Bazball’. When the principles of ultra attacking cricket need to be tempered by the match situation at times. And both sides of the fence in this particular debate in here actually accept that by not even compromising a little bit, England lost. I guess it’s whether you’re fine with that. I don’t think I’m atypical as an English cricket fans in that all I really care about is The Ashes. England are much better than under Root of course, no one denies that. But just playing for the positive result and the most ‘entertaining’ outcome, regardless of who it’s for, didn’t quite sit right in the winter, let alone now 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinRobin 11270 Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 I hope no-one is really saying match awareness needs to be ditched. In fact I was disappointed that the new ball wasn't taken immediately but if a couple of relatively simple catches had been taken I don't think there would be any arguing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 9404 Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 1 minute ago, RobinRobin said: I hope no-one is really saying match awareness needs to be ditched. In fact I was disappointed that the new ball wasn't taken immediately but if a couple of relatively simple catches had been taken I don't think there would be any arguing at all. I think we'd still be discussing it though, although with a more positive slant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinRobin 11270 Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, Toonpack said: I think we'd still be discussing it though, although with a more positive slant. Possibly but not so many pages 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 9404 Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 9 minutes ago, Alex said: Well what’s kind of daft is it had to be conventional or ‘Bazball’. When the principles of ultra attacking cricket need to be tempered by the match situation at times. And both sides of the fence in this particular debate in here actually accept that by not even compromising a little bit, England lost. I guess it’s whether you’re fine with that. I don’t think I’m atypical as an English cricket fans in that all I really care about is The Ashes. England are much better than under Root of course, no one denies that. But just playing for the positive result and the most ‘entertaining’ outcome, regardless of who it’s for, didn’t quite sit right in the winter, let alone now Exactly, most series I can simply enjoy "the cricket" but do like to win, but this one as you said it's the Ashes against the bloody Aussies who have two proven cheats, who should never have played again, in their midst. Any level of contentment from an entertaining loss does not exist for me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21923 Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 I take Alex’s point about wanting to win the Ashes. But putting that aside, doesn’t everyone agree that England are doing is good for test cricket? It’s the greatest form of the game but interest around the world beyond England and Australia is dwindling. Stokes and Baz seem to be on a mission to save it by bringing it up to date with the shorter forms of the game. And for that I salute them. (still think we’re going to win the series despite the set back at Edgbaston. We will blow them away playing like this. Hopefully at Lords) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35082 Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 5 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: I take Alex’s point about wanting to win the Ashes. But putting that aside, doesn’t everyone agree that England are doing is good for test cricket? It’s the greatest form of the game but interest around the world beyond England and Australia is dwindling. Stokes and Baz seem to be on a mission to save it by bringing it up to date with the shorter forms of the game. And for that I salute them. (still think we’re going to win the series despite the set back at Edgbaston. We will blow them away playing like this. Hopefully at Lords) Yeah but are you actually thinking the next Pakistan v Bangladesh series gets sold out because of England’s approach? ’Putting buns in seats’ is just another of the tired journalistic cliche tbh. The Ashes sells out anyway. Crowds tend to be poor in most other parts of the world (except when England are in town) and that’s been the case all my life (as has talk about the demise of red ball cricket). It might be the case that it’s doomed but, if it is, this is fuck all in the scheme of things. Other teams aren’t going to start playing like this and, even if they did, test attendance isn’t going to explode everywhere off the back of it. ‘Saving test cricket’ is just sports journalists being sports journalists tbh. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinRobin 11270 Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 If it only affects English cricket so be it. It's better than meekly rolling over which we would have done otherwise. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21923 Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 11 minutes ago, Alex said: Yeah but are you actually thinking the next Pakistan v Bangladesh series gets sold out because of England’s approach? ’Putting buns in seats’ is just another of the tired journalistic cliche tbh. The Ashes sells out anyway. Crowds tend to be poor in most other parts of the world (except when England are in town) and that’s been the case all my life (as has talk about the demise of red ball cricket). It might be the case that it’s doomed but, if it is, this is fuck all in the scheme of things. Other teams aren’t going to start playing like this and, even if they did, test attendance isn’t going to explode everywhere off the back of it. ‘Saving test cricket’ is just sports journalists being sports journalists tbh. no, it doesn’t happen overnight. I do think it’s part of their mission though. They’ve said it enough times that they’re trying to entertain. And test cricket is the one form of the game that has struggled around the world as the shorter forms have developed (despite still being the purest and greatest form of the game) They’re trying to bring more of the one day energy into it. If they’re successful, more teams might imitate what England are doing and that then might revive interest in test cricket around the world. That’s my take on it - and I’m no sports journalist. I think it’s admirable, it’s exciting and we’re all talking about it so they’re doing something right. A lot will hinge on whether we win the ashes because if we don’t, they’ll get a load of criticism, Stokes and Baz might walk, they might get the sack or they might be persuaded to change approach. I hope they win the argument - and not just because I want to beat the Aussies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35082 Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 10 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: no, it doesn’t happen overnight. I do think it’s part of their mission though. They’ve said it enough times that they’re trying to entertain. And test cricket is the one form of the game that has struggled around the world as the shorter forms have developed (despite still being the purest and greatest form of the game) They’re trying to bring more of the one day energy into it. If they’re successful, more teams might imitate what England are doing and that then might revive interest in test cricket around the world. That’s my take on it - and I’m no sports journalist. I think it’s admirable, it’s exciting and we’re all talking about it so they’re doing something right. A lot will hinge on whether we win the ashes because if we don’t, they’ll get a load of criticism, Stokes and Baz might walk, they might get the sack or they might be persuaded to change approach. I hope they win the argument - and not just because I want to beat the Aussies. To note, I was inferring plagiarism rather than journalism 👍🏻 I wasn’t on about you specifically though but that’s all the sorts of things being said about it. It’s hyperbolic to say the least (even if Stokes/ McCullum are saying it too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21923 Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 22 minutes ago, Alex said: To note, I was inferring plagiarism rather than journalism 👍🏻 I wasn’t on about you specifically though but that’s all the sorts of things being said about it. It’s hyperbolic to say the least (even if Stokes/ McCullum are saying it too). this is no hot take though. there have been debates on TMS and Sky for as long as I can remember about how to revive interest in test cricket to counter the explosion in the white ball game. it seems to me that stokes and baz are doing something which might spark a revival. but it has to be successful first. then it could catch on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 9404 Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 9 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: this is no hot take though. there have been debates on TMS and Sky for as long as I can remember about how to revive interest in test cricket to counter the explosion in the white ball game. it seems to me that stokes and baz are doing something which might spark a revival. but it has to be successful first. then it could catch on. Take control of the ICC away from Indian billionaires would be a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21923 Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 shit. this is a bit like when you realise you agree with CT about something. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44879 Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 Team Gloom just saw its membership numbers PLUMMET. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 9404 Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 Makes good points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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