The Cricket Thread

[RobinRobin 11202]

17 hours ago, Dr Gloom said:

2-2 probably about right in the end. could have been 3-1 either way - they were unlucky a stokes miracle innings denied them at headingly. we might have bowled them out at lords if we'd inserted them slightly earlier.

i think overall they won more sessions over the series than we did and deserved to retain the urn. we should do better down under next time with proper pace in archer, and hopefully wood if he can stay fit, to compliment the attack. should be more competitive than last time, at least, and this series showed there is life after anderson. our bowling is still excellent in home conditions, broad might have a few more summers left in him after all. the problem remains the flaky batting. it'll be interesting to see if the new coach continues with all the all rounders or brings in specialist test players - ben foakes for example didn't do a lot wrong before being discarded and is probably the best wicket keeper available. is there room for both buttler and bairstow etc

their bowling is good but smith holds their batting together. we would have spanked them without his runs. highlight of the series for me was david warner's batting - poetic. 

 

Good post.

I agree about specialists rather than all rounders.  After all, Foakes got a ton in his first test, didn't he?  I am not sure that both Buttler and Bairstow can continue to be picked without getting some red ball runs soon.  If either of them is to be the wicket-keeper all rounder, he must score runs.  At the moment, Buttler is probably ahead, but neither is the best keeper available, which should always be the relevant factor.

I like having Curran in there, both for his potential with the bat but more so because of the different angle he provides.  He could do with a bit more pace, but he must be the future.

We need to blood some players in NZ this winter, to see how they go.

Although I cannot stand the man - he has no class whatsoever (other than as a batsman, obviously) - Smith was the difference.  Labuschagne was the next best and probably saved the Lords test for Oz.  Just when we had knocked out Smith, another annoyingly tough batsman came along.  I don't understand, on that basis and his record in England, he was not chosen from the beginning.

Finally, I totally agree about Warner - couldn't have happened to a nicer twat. 

[Dr Gloom 21869]

7 hours ago, RobinRobin said:

Good post.

I agree about specialists rather than all rounders.  After all, Foakes got a ton in his first test, didn't he?  I am not sure that both Buttler and Bairstow can continue to be picked without getting some red ball runs soon.  If either of them is to be the wicket-keeper all rounder, he must score runs.  At the moment, Buttler is probably ahead, but neither is the best keeper available, which should always be the relevant factor.

I like having Curran in there, both for his potential with the bat but more so because of the different angle he provides.  He could do with a bit more pace, but he must be the future.

We need to blood some players in NZ this winter, to see how they go.

Although I cannot stand the man - he has no class whatsoever (other than as a batsman, obviously) - Smith was the difference.  Labuschagne was the next best and probably saved the Lords test for Oz.  Just when we had knocked out Smith, another annoyingly tough batsman came along.  I don't understand, on that basis and his record in England, he was not chosen from the beginning.

Finally, I totally agree about Warner - couldn't have happened to a nicer twat. 

In test match cricket there is definitely a case for playing specialists with one allrounder instead of trying to shoehorn two or three all rounders into the side like we have in recent years. It works for ODIs but do Buttler, Bairstow or Moeen deserve to be in the test side on the strength of their batting, keeping or bowling alone? If not, don’t pick them all.

Recall Foakes, the best keeper, and instruct Bairstow and Buttler to work on their test batting to see if they can make a middle order spot their own. Then give Pope a go in the tour of NZ.

The middle order question could be solved by keeping Stokes higher up the order and telling him he’s in the side for his batting, which has been better than anyone else since the Bristol incident, and just use him as a part time bowler in short bursts. Then rotate Archer, Broad, Anderson, Woakes, Wood and Curran as the four main quicks. Leach deserves a run in the side too. He’s more than just a cult hero - he can bowl economically first innings or attack on a wearing pitch. Looks a more consistent bowler than Moeen, which again highlights the flaw in picking your frontline spinner based on his batting.

That still leaves the question of who opens with Burns. Denly clearly isn’t the long term answer given his age, probably not the short term solution either, but he’s earned another chance this winter. 

Edited September 17, 2019 by Dr Gloom

[David Kelly 1224]

3 hours ago, Dr Gloom said:

In test match cricket there is definitely a case for playing specialists with one allrounder instead of trying to shoehorn two or three all rounders into the side like we have in recent years. It works for ODIs but do Buttler, Bairstow or Moeen deserve to be in the test side on the strength of their batting, keeping or bowling alone? If not, don’t pick them all.

Recall Foakes, the best keeper, and instruct Bairstow and Buttler to work on their test batting to see if they can make a middle order spot their own. Then give Pope a go in the tour of NZ.

The middle order question could be solved by keeping Stokes higher up the order and telling him he’s in the side for his batting, which has been better than anyone else since the Bristol incident, and just use him as a part time bowler in short bursts. Then rotate Archer, Broad, Anderson, Woakes, Wood and Curran as the four main quicks. Leach deserves a run in the side too. He’s more than just a cult hero - he can bowl economically first innings or attack on a wearing pitch. Looks a more consistent bowler than Moeen, which again highlights the flaw in picking your frontline spinner based on his batting.

That still leaves the question of who opens with Burns. Denly clearly isn’t the long term answer given his age, probably not the short term solution either, but he’s earned another chance this winter. 

 

The possible problem you have with limiting Stokes to just batting is he seems to want to be involved all of the time and this inspires him to do better.  If you took the bowling away from from (which I realise you're not totally suggesting) would his batting actually suffer.

 

Totally agree about Bairstow and Buttler though, they need to be deserving of their spot as batsmen on merit and they've both only averaged mid 20's this series.  At the moment I don't think you can justify them both being in the team. 

[Dr Gloom 21869]

 

1 hour ago, David Kelly said:

 

The possible problem you have with limiting Stokes to just batting is he seems to want to be involved all of the time and this inspires him to do better.  If you took the bowling away from from (which I realise you're not totally suggesting) would his batting actually suffer.

 

Totally agree about Bairstow and Buttler though, they need to be deserving of their spot as batsmen on merit and they've both only averaged mid 20's this series.  At the moment I don't think you can justify them both being in the team. 

Possibly, he’s never too far from the action though - even in the field when he isn’t bowling. And of course he could still bowl, but you’d use him more sparingly and throw him the ball when hunting a wicket. 

There were times in this series when he was bowling third change. We have better quality options for that role. He’s a quality batting all rounder and a good bowler on his day but he can lack control and leak runs.

What a luxury he’d be to bring into the attack fresh as a fifth change option along with the spinner. Anderson, Broad and Archer to share new ball duties, then one of your bowling all rounders (woakes or Curran) fourth change.  

Stokes is now one of our best two batsmen, our best of the last year or so, actually, and his batting position could reflect that (particularly given lack of other options) - keeping him up the order could let us ease rookies like Pope in at number 5 or 6.

#cricketgenius

 

[Dr Gloom 21869]

this is an interesting take. i suppose if we arre going to persist with a wicket keeper/batman at number 7, it might be worth giving buttler a go. i always felt bairstow is wasted as WK because he's one our best fielders.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2019/sep/15/jonny-bairstow-england-australia-ashes

[RobinRobin 11202]

18 hours ago, Dr Gloom said:

Leach deserves a run in the side too. He’s more than just a cult hero - he can bowl economically first innings or attack on a wearing pitch. Looks a more consistent bowler than Moeen, which again highlights the flaw in picking your frontline spinner based on his batting.

Been a safer (as opposed to better) batsman, as well, this year.  Never going to get a sparkling 50, but has shown he can stick around with a better batsman, which poor old Moeen has just not been able to do for a while.  Sometimes that is more useful than getting a lot of runs - as at Headingley.  

[RobinRobin 11202]

11 hours ago, Dr Gloom said:

this is an interesting take. i suppose if we arre going to persist with a wicket keeper/batman at number 7, it might be worth giving buttler a go. i always felt bairstow is wasted as WK because he's one our best fielders.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2019/sep/15/jonny-bairstow-england-australia-ashes

Has always seemed a bit odd that Buttler keeps in ODIs and T20s, but Bairstow in Tests.  Not a good look if he picks and chooses where he plays, though.  They both need to up their games with the bat, though, as opposed to as keepers.

[David Kelly 1224]

I don't think you can really keep both of them in the team if Butler is going to bat at 7 and not take the gloves.  The solution has to either be Butler keeping and Bairstow at 5 or Bairstow keeping at 7 and Butler not in the team.  Of course you could Argue that Foakes should keeping whatever is decided with those two.

[Tom 14011]

Should be a decent T20 finals tomorrow. A nice day to sit by the TV non the less  

[Alex 34959]

Dropping Bairstow is what should happen. Irrespective of who of the other two options replaces him behind the stumps. That’s not binning him forever but there’s no way he should keep his place on current form. I actually think Foakes provides the best answer in terms of keeping and batting at 7/8. We’ve got more than enough attacking players (a place could probably still be found for Buttler) and Foakes can hang around in a style not dissimilar to Jack Russell. He also averages about 40 in first class cricket iirc. Bairstow has the talent but I’d force him to be a specialist batsman or nothing. He’s obviously a bit of a bell-end who has been pandered to by Root and the selectors though so he’ll probably retain his place. 

[Dr Gloom 21869]

The first test in NZ sounds like it total dross. A lot of expectation on Archer finally being the bowler to extract pace and bounce from docile foreign pitches but he managed just one wicket.

Lots of talk about a two year plan under Root to reclaim the ashes down under but how many more series can he continue as captain while continuing to perform below his best? He is averaging 39.70 as captain compared to 52.80 when not in charge.

You could put that down to him constantly moving up and down the order, or the pressure he faces as senior batsman, with the lack of top order runs around him, or just one of those poor spells all batsman suffer in their career - can he keep the job if he continues to average 13 runs fewer than did before he was captain?

[Dr Gloom 21869]

Incidentally, the edge is on Amazon prime and well worth a watch. That England side was bloody brilliant, the depth we had in both batting and bowling. Shame it all went tits up pretty much as soon as they got to number 1

[Alex 34959]

Irrespective of this match / series Root shouldn’t be captain. Firstly he’s not s very good captain, secondly it’s having an adverse effect on his batting. 

[Dr Gloom 21869]

1 minute ago, Alex said:

Irrespective of this match / series Root shouldn’t be captain. Firstly he’s not s very good captain, secondly it’s having an adverse effect on his batting. 

Who then? Stokes? 

[Alex 34959]

Just now, Dr Gloom said:

Incidentally, the edge is on Amazon prime and well worth a watch. That England side was bloody brilliant, the depth we had in both batting and bowling. Shame it all went tits up pretty much as soon as they got to number 1

Yeah, it’s really good. As an aside I saw Swann and Blofeld at The Whitley Bay Playhouse the other weekend. Worth seeing them if they’re doing any nights anywhere near you 

[Alex 34959]

Just now, Dr Gloom said:

Who then? Stokes? 

Well that’s the problem 

[David Kelly 1224]

Aye Root doesn't seem to be a very good captain.  Some of his field set ups and use of bowlers seems to be way off.  It's difficult to imagine who else could replace him though.  We've got quite a few players now (the openers, Denly, Pope, Curran, Archer) who are very inexperienced when it comes to international cricket and I'm not sure if any of them have ever captained a team. 

The leaves Broad who would certainly waste all our DRS appealing his own balls, Stokes or Butler as options.  There's not an obvious replacement there.

[Dr Gloom 21869]

it would have to be stokes. 

 

 

[RobinRobin 11202]

It would have to be Stokes, and he has probably matured enough now to handle it.  It may be better to have someone who understands the pressures on bowlers, albeit not the main bowlers (e.g. Anderson or Broad who would waste DRS), so that someone like Archer is not over-used, but given short sharp spells and told to run in and pitch it up as fast as possible.

[David Kelly 1224]

Glad I've been off sick the last couple of days as it allowed me to watch five day test cricket in all its glory. Stokes is an absolute freak.  To put in a bowling performance like that at the end on a dead pitch after being amazing in the field and lasing their bowlers all over the park was truly staggering.

Good to see performances from Sibley and Pope too.

[Alex 34959]

Stokes is fucking incredible like. Totally thrives on those pressure situations 

[Dr Gloom 21869]

is there anything he can't do? 

can i vote for him as next labour leader? 

[David Kelly 1224]

Can we not get him signed on for the Toon?  Or perhaps get him to front a buy out?

[Tom 14011]

I wish this rain would fuck off or I’m going to have to watch the football.

[Dr Gloom 21869]

Hope they enforce the follow on, if they get the chance, given the weather. Not the modern way though is it