The Cricket Thread

[Dr Gloom 21847]

Prior to Cook and Root turning it on in a dead rubber, I don’t think our batting was much better tbf, other than Buttler and Curran digging us out of the shit after the textbook top order collapses. And we were supposed to be at home - you’d think our lot would be used to playing the moving ball, so credit to India’s bowlers for consistently exploiting the English conditions.

[Alex 34913]

23 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

Prior to Cook and Root turning it on in a dead rubber, I don’t think our batting was much better tbf, other than Buttler and Curran digging us out of the shit after the textbook top order collapses. And we were supposed to be at home - you’d think our lot would be used to playing the moving ball, so credit to India’s bowlers for consistently exploiting the English conditions.

And when Woakes got his maiden test century. So, ignoring the dead rubber (which you're only doing because it doesn't suit your argument), our batting order outperformed theirs in 3 out of 4 tests.

Edited September 12, 2018 by Alex

[Dr Gloom 21847]

6 minutes ago, Alex said:

And when Woakes got his maiden test century. So, ignoring the dead rubber (which you're only doing because it doesn't suit your argument) our batting order outperformed theirs in 3 out of 4 tests.

 i didn't say we didn't outperform them. we deserved to win, but there wasn't much in it.

and yes, i was ignoring the lords game because i missed that one (by all accounts it was one-sided). but india tonked us in one game, two others were tight victories and one was a dead rubber, which india did a great job of almost saving. 

edit - it's not really an argument either, given the pundits who watched the series and the players who took part in it are saying the same thing, so it's more of an observation, i'd say.

Edited September 12, 2018 by Dr Gloom

[Alex 34913]

That's kind of the point I've been making. I don't think it was as tight as some pundits have suggested because we consistently outperformed the opposition (in 4 matches in a 5 test series). And especially when the pressure was on and when it really mattered. If it had been the other way around the same people would be having a right go. It's a weird English trait. Outplay the number side in the world in 4 out of 5 games (two of which were pretty one-sided victories) and it was somehow closer than the scoreline suggests. If Australia had done it to us it would be a case of them being ruthless and England not having the bottle in the crucial moments. I know Vaughan says it was more like a 3-2 but the question I'd ask is - which test that India lost did they actually deserve to win? They could have won the two close tests but they didn't because they weren't good enough when it mattered.

[Dr Gloom 21847]

you're right - we run the crucial moments in two tests, that for me was the difference between the two sides, and it wasn't a big one - 30 runs in one, and 60 in another. that's a couple of half-decent partnerships, which have basically decided the series. i actually agree with you about the english navel-gazing approach to reporting sport and it was a great series victory against the top ranked test side. but lords aside, the indians were competitive throughout, which they haven't always been on tours of england. that test side dhoni led to a 4-0 whitewash here rolled over. this india is a totally different beast, and if you just looked at the scoreline you might not appreciate how tight a series it's been.

i know they're already ranked number 1, so this isn't exactly a scoop, but i think india have the makings of an excellent test side, which can go on to win series abroad. it's the most impressive indian pace attack i can remember seeing, then they've got jadeja and ashwin and the world's best batter. they just need a little more solidity in the top order. despite our series victory, i see us as more of a work in progress. our bowling attack remains potent at home, but struggles down under and in the sub continent. we have two of the best fast bowlers in the world, but both coming to the ends of their careers. we need an entire new top 3 now root has declared he will bat at 4. we have an exciting middle order, which is prone to collapse, and an attacking, wicket-taking leg spinner, who lacks control and the trust of the captain. 

i'd like to see us find three openers to play at the top. i've no idea who those players are, other than perhaps burns, as i don't watch enough of the CC, but three players who can play proper test cricket at the top of the order to build a foundation for all the destructive players to follow. then you can almost rotate the likes of woakes, stokes, curran, ali and buttler, depending on the country/surface. i don't fancy moeen at 3 at all. it feels like we're trying to include too many all rounders at the expense of specialist batsmen or bowlers. is Moeen really the best number 3 in the country? if not, don't play him there just because he bowls some decent off breaks too. 

 

Edited September 12, 2018 by Dr Gloom

[Dr Gloom 21847]

we need to unearth another chris tremlett - a match-winning bowler and not just in english conditions - what a beast he was. shame he only played a handful of test series before his body fell apart. 

[Alex 34913]

Good chance India will win in Australia this winter. They'll have a bowling attack arguably as good as Australia's and the latter won't have Warner or Smith available.

[Dr Gloom 21847]

imagine if the india side with the fab five of sachin, dravid, sehwag, ganguly and very very special laxman had been backed up by a pace attack as good as their current crop.  

[Alex 34913]

They've got good spin options too (as you would expect).

[David Kelly 1224]

Great start to his test career for Ben Foakes this morning.  Shame the top order batsmen were giving their wickets away again!

[Dr Gloom 21847]

same old story. lower/middle order having to bail out the specialist batters. moeen and jennings have oit all to do to suggest they're remotely good enough to play 2 and 3 in the ashes. could do with burns making some runs early in his career too. the aussie quicks are going to be looking at our top 3 and licking their lips. 

[Alex 34913]

Jennings played well but we already know he’s a good player of spin. 

[Dr Gloom 21847]

stokes at 3, Buttler at 5. No room for bairstow 

[David Kelly 1224]

Not that much of a surprise given the last match and the bowling requirements.  It'll be interesting to see how Stokes and Butler do higher up the order.

[Dr Gloom 21847]

Lineup for Ashes

Jennings or Burns

Bairstow 

Stokes

Root

Buttler

Moeen

Foakes

Woakes or Curran

Rashid

Broad

Anderson

🤪

Edited November 13, 2018 by Dr Gloom

[Dr Gloom 21847]

a rank turner of a pitch but Buttler making it look easy. Anything north of 250 will be decent

[Dr Gloom 21847]

this is looking like a match-winning knock from curran 

[David Kelly 1224]

Curran's start to test cricket has been pretty sensational.  As a left armer he gives us something different and his contribution with the bat is more than anyone could have hoped for.  Its quite possible that he could be selected for his batting in the future and that would give us the opportunity for some great balance in the side.

[Dr Gloom 21847]

there's a spot open at 3

[Dr Gloom 21847]

is the single discipline specialist a dying breed? the number of all rounders - or wicket keeper batsmen - in this england side is sensational - unprecedented? anderson is the only traditional tail ender who you wouldn't fancy to hang around for long, but even he's made 80 odd 

stokes

curran

moeen

rashid

woakes

broad - not so much these days but he's still decent with the bat for a number 10

root can bowl a bit if you want to drop one of the spinners

three excellent WKB options in bairstow/buttler/foakes, two of which can continu to play as specialist batsmen.

 

[David Kelly 1224]

Jennings could probably a useful cover bowler too at some point.

 

I think it's good to see what Sri Lanka have done today, it was looking at one point that they wouldn't be good enough to make a game of this but they've come back well and you'd have to have them as favourites for this match now.

 

[Dr Gloom 21847]

Roooooooooooot

[Dr Gloom 21847]

Sri Lanka in with a shout all of a sudden 

[Alex 34913]

Two matches finished this week that clearly show which is the superior version of the game  

[Dr Gloom 21847]

Superb effort by India’s pace attack to outbowl the Aussie quicks in their own back yard. Admittedly they look toothless without the banned cheats in their side but the last time England managed that was when Chris Tremlett bowled like a brute at them down under.

Can’t help but wonder what @Ken makes of it all.