The Cricket Thread

[Tom 14011]

Woakes at 7  

[Gemmill 44569]

Been a great watch all day. 

[Tom 14011]

I watched till lunch and then missed a Root,Stokes wickets as I was mowing the lawn. 

Its been mint though.

[Tom 14011]

 

[Tom 14011]

Hell of a victory 

[Dr Gloom 21869]

Happy for buttler. Hope he can kick in from here with the bat in tests 

[Alex 34959]

One of the greatest test partnerships of all time from Woakes and Buttler. 

[Alex 34959]

7 hours ago, Dr Gloom said:

Happy for buttler. Hope he can kick in from here with the bat in tests 

He seems like such a nice lad too. Not to take anything away from what he did but it’s no coincidence he did it because he did pretty much had to approach it like a one day run chase. Too often the situation he’s come in to in test cricket has made it unclear exactly what sort of innings he’s needed to play. Delighted for Woakes too

[Dr Gloom 21869]

Still question marks over his keeping when foakes is arguably the best in that department, and no mug with the bat. But Buttler has so much talent - I’d love to see him fulfil his potential in tests. He had the ability to become like Adam Gilchrist was for us. It would help if, like you say, he was able to come in with runs on the board more frequently. Too often he gets out trying to bat like a test batsman because he comes in amid a collapse. 
 

Happy for Woakes too. I wouldn’t be “rotating” him in English conditions - he’s as good as any of them. 

[David Kelly 1224]

On 07/08/2020 at 15:19, Alex said:

Woakes is definitely not a test no. 7 on current form. 

This all aged well .  Great performance from him and Butler on Saturday.  It showed the weakness in Pakistan's attack when you go at them and things start going wrong for them they don't react well for all the talent they have.  Makes the rest of the series very interesting.

[Alex 34959]

2 minutes ago, David Kelly said:

This all aged well .  Great performance from him and Butler on Saturday.  It showed the weakness in Pakistan's attack when you go at them and things start going wrong for them they don't react well for all the talent they have.  Makes the rest of the series very interesting.

Aye, I was thinking that  tbf it was true at the time  I think there’s definitely the influence of one day cricket where sides now think they can chase down scores in that format and in test cricket that they couldn’t before. I think they were well up for it due to a bit of chatter that had been going on too. The pitch seemed to flatten out a bit in the afternoon as well but you’re correct in saying the Pakistan attack fell apart a little bit when pressure was applied and it started to look like England could do it

[Tom 14011]

I think we were all thinking it in fairness  

[David Kelly 1224]

1 minute ago, Alex said:

Aye, I was thinking that  tbf it was true at the time  I think there’s definitely the influence of one day cricket where sides now think they can chase down scores in that format and in test cricket that they couldn’t before. I think they were well up for it due to a bit of chatter that had been going on too. The pitch seemed to flatten out a bit in the afternoon as well but you’re correct in saying the Pakistan attack fell apart a little bit when pressure was applied and it started to look like England could do it

When Woakes came in it also seemed (judging from TMS as I'd went out and missed from Root getting out to well into Buttler and Woakes partership) that there was no way they were going to be able to sit on their bowlers and just try to pick off the really bad balls and slowly get the runs.  At that time it certainly appeared that if they did that there would be a ball with their name on it just around the corner.  So they really had no option but to go into one day mode.  I think this helped them both and it was what lead to that pressure on their attack.  It will be interesting to see if that changes how we play them in the next two games.  I mean I don't doubt that Burns and Sibbley (and presumably Crawley with Stokes missing) will continue to play their own games slowly trying to wear down their bowlers.  But will Root, Buttler & possibly one of Bracey or Lawrence (Pope seems to play this way anyway so not much is likely to change from him) play in a way to put more pressure on their young/inexperienced attack? 

[Dr Gloom 21869]

Love Woakes but you probably want him at 8 and Buttler at 7

[Alex 34959]

I think Buttler has to positive otherwise you might as well have Foakes in there. Obviously play to the situation etc but if he’s not looking to score then he’s Not going to be putting the bowlers under any pressure. Ask any of the bowlers and you can bet they’d want to bowl to a more subdued Buttler any time. 

[Dr Gloom 21869]

There’s a big selection headache in the bowling department when stokes is officially declared fit again to bowl. You don’t need five seamers but which one do you leave out? Woakes has done enough this summer not to be the fall guy again. Broad backed up what he was saying about being left out. Archer has been a bit down on pace but he offers something different to the rest. It’s probably Anderson on this summer’s form but he’s your senior strike bowler and leading fast bowling wicket taker of all time...good headache to have I suppose 

[Alex 34959]

I think playing 3 matches back to back and the age of Anderson and, to a lesser extent, Broad allows for rotation. I think Archer needs a rest too but I’d like to see Wood replace him for that genuine pace option. Then you have Curran who I think has as good an average as anyone in recent times bowling in English conditions 

[Dr Gloom 21869]

Wonder if Jimmy will want to carry on to the next ashes tour. Might be one too far as he’ll be pushing 40 by then. Broad, Archer, Wood, Stokes and Woakes feels like a good mix for that series. Questions remain over the spinner. I don’t think we will regain the number one spot in tests again until a high class spinner emerges but I’m unconvinced we have one - Bess, Leach, Rashid, Moeen - someone else? Leach probably the best hope of the current batch 

[Alex 34959]

7 hours ago, Dr Gloom said:

Wonder if Jimmy will want to carry on to the next ashes tour. Might be one too far as he’ll be pushing 40 by then. Broad, Archer, Wood, Stokes and Woakes feels like a good mix for that series. Questions remain over the spinner. I don’t think we will regain the number one spot in tests again until a high class spinner emerges but I’m unconvinced we have one - Bess, Leach, Rashid, Moeen - someone else? Leach probably the best hope of the current batch 

Talent-wise it’s Moeen I reckon (discounting Rashid who is a white ball specialist now) but he doesn’t have the self confidence to do a job when he’s expected to take wickets in the 4th innings on a turning pitch. Looks like they’ve gone with Bess on the basis he’s a talented all-round cricketer young and inexperienced enough to improve 

[RobinRobin 11202]

20 hours ago, Alex said:

Talent-wise it’s Moeen I reckon (discounting Rashid who is a white ball specialist now) but he doesn’t have the self confidence to do a job when he’s expected to take wickets in the 4th innings on a turning pitch. Looks like they’ve gone with Bess on the basis he’s a talented all-round cricketer young and inexperienced enough to improve 

Not sure if they know whether Moeen is a batsman who bowls or a bowler who bats, and he ends up being neither, which is a shame.  He certainly seems to have the most talent, I would agree but age is probably starting to hurt him.

[Dr Gloom 21869]

Is Moeen the best bowler out of that lot? I don’t think he has the self belief to make it as a front line spinner. He’s had loads of chances - I think he’s a good all rounder to compliment another spinner, when the pitch calls for two spinners - but I would pick him primarily as an attacking lower order batsman who can bowl a bit.
 

I still think rashid has the most talent out of all of them but Root seems to think he leaks too many runs to make it in tests and there’s no point picking him if the captain doesn’t trust him enough to bowl him. I think leach looks more likely to spin us to victory in a fourth innings than Bess, from what I’ve seen of both of them so far, and would like to see him given another run in the side. 

Edited August 12, 2020 by Dr Gloom

[David Kelly 1224]

The stats at test level don't really back up Rashid or Moeen as a bowler over the other two.  Leach has comfortably the best bowling average of the four spinners although that's obviously at a much smaller sample size than Ali.

Unsurprisingly Ali has the best batting average but it's not actually that much better than Bess.  I think the way he's been moved up and down the order probably hasn't helped him but it shows how much they rate his ability.

[Tom 14011]

Ollie Robinson brought in for Stokes 

[Alex 34959]

1 hour ago, David Kelly said:

The stats at test level don't really back up Rashid or Moeen as a bowler over the other two.  Leach has comfortably the best bowling average of the four spinners although that's obviously at a much smaller sample size than Ali.

Unsurprisingly Ali has the best batting average but it's not actually that much better than Bess.  I think the way he's been moved up and down the order probably hasn't helped him but it shows how much they rate his ability.

I think Moeen has a good bowling average  over the latter part of his career. Meanwhile his batting has struggled. I think it’s the mental side of the game with him though. Like does he have the confidence in his own ability? I don’t think it’s helped him that he’s the type of lad who would bat anywhere for the team and not whinge about it either. 

[RobinRobin 11202]

17 hours ago, Dr Gloom said:

I still think rashid has the most talent out of all of them but Root seems to think he leaks too many runs to make it in tests and there’s no point picking him if the captain doesn’t trust him enough to bowl him. I think leach looks more likely to spin us to victory in a fourth innings than Bess, from what I’ve seen of both of them so far, and would like to see him given another run in the side. 

I am pretty sure Rashid doesn't even have a red ball contract these days, and age is probably against him as well.  Agree about Leach, but would hope that there is better out there. 

We don't really make spinning pitches these days, so it is difficult to produce spinners who get enough time in the middle.