The Cricket Thread

[Ken 119]

Never! My knee knackered friend.

[Dr Gloom 21302]

Smith has great hand-eye coordination. He must have to have accumulated so many runs with such a bizarre technique. 

 

[Ken 119]

Best in the world now but comparing to Bradman? What is with comparing to those no longer with us and considered the best? How do you score that?

[Dr Gloom 21302]

I’ll compare him to Root instead of the Don.

 

There’s been a lot of debate about which of Root or Smith was the best in the world lately, as they continually swapped places at the top of the batting rankings. 

 

Smith has ended the debate emphatically in this series. His technique looks all over the shop compared to Root but it works for him so who cares it isn’t out of the text book?

 

Unlike Root, he converts 50s into big hundreds more often than not. I thought leading England on an ashes tour would really inspire Root, and we’d see a close contest between the top two batters in the world, but he’s been nowhere near his best. 

[Ken 119]

31 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

I’ll compare him to Root instead of the Don.

 

There’s been a lot of debate about which of Root or Smith was the best in the world lately, as they continually swapped places at the top of the batting rankings. 

 

Smith has ended the debate emphatically in this series. His technique looks all over the shop compared to Root but it works for him so who cares it isn’t out of the text book?

 

Unlike Root, he converts 50s into big hundreds more often than not. I thought leading England on an ashes tour would really inspire Root, and we’d see a close contest between the top two batters in the world, but he’s been nowhere near his best. 

He is better than Root, twice as much in my opinion. I don't believe that was ever in question tbh. His only real adversary was Kohli,  which can be debatable.

[Alex 34093]

Smith Bradmanesque, Ken Mackemesque.  You can decide which comparison is more apt. Think Smith is moving into the pantheon of the all time greats though. Probably only needs to show he can do it against the swinging ball

[Ken 119]

Smith the best since Bradman tbf. I always had the greatest of admiration, in a long list, for Allan Border. Averaged 50 in an era of monsters that he had to face and on some dodgy wickets too - Marshall, Ambrose, Holding, Garner, Hadlee, Willis, Botham... I've probably forgotten a few there.

[Alex 34093]

Border was tough as old boots but he wasn’t in the same league as Sir Viv

[Ken 119]

Master Blaster. Hard to argue with that, his playing style of course was much better than AB's.

 

I guess I was more coming from the POV that Border began his career when Australian cricket was in the doldrums and he retired just as we had entered a golden era. His legacy was immense.

Edited December 17, 2017 by Ken

[Dr Gloom 21302]

It’s pretry pointless trying to compare players from different eras. The likes of Richards, Lara, Sachin, Border etc would probably average closer to Bradman’s 99 than Smith is now if they’d had the luxury of playing on modern pitches with modern bats and against the current generation of fast bowlers.

 

Smith is proving he is the best of his generation. Agree with Alex about the only mark against him being how he seems to fail when the ball is swinging. Swann called him out on it - he looked pants in Brisbane when it was hooping, ditto the tests on the last tour of England when there was movement through the air. I seem to remember him doing well at Lords on a batting friendly wicket, but really struggling at Cardiff and Trent bridge when it was swinging.

 

I’m not calling him a flat track bully but he still has a bit to prove before you can say he is up there with the all time greats.

[Alex 34093]

1 hour ago, Ken said:

Master Blaster. Hard to argue with that, his playing style of course was much better than AB's.

 

I guess I was more coming from the POV that Border began his career when Australian cricket was in the doldrums and he retired just as we had entered a golden era. His legacy was immense.

Absolutely, he set the tone for what began on his watch and what followed. Great batsman as well. 

[Ken 119]

14 hours ago, Dr Gloom said:

It’s pretry pointless trying to compare players from different eras. The likes of Richards, Lara, Sachin, Border etc would probably average closer to Bradman’s 99 than Smith is now if they’d had the luxury of playing on modern pitches with modern bats and against the current generation of fast bowlers.

 

Smith is proving he is the best of his generation. Agree with Alex about the only mark against him being how he seems to fail when the ball is swinging. Swann called him out on it - he looked pants in Brisbane when it was hooping, ditto the tests on the last tour of England when there was movement through the air. I seem to remember him doing well at Lords on a batting friendly wicket, but really struggling at Cardiff and Trent bridge when it was swinging.

 

I’m not calling him a flat track bully but he still has a bit to prove before you can say he is up there with the all time greats.

It is why I thought talk of comparing him to Bradman was a bit of overreach and premature. Personally I feel that Ponting had been the best batsman Australia has produced in my time watching the game, purely based on statistics and technique, but Smith has gone past him now, he has scored centuries and double everywhere in the world. Keeping in mind he is still only 28 as well and has quite a number of years where he will be at the peak of his powers still, he has achieved a lot but there is more to come you'd expect.

[Ken 119]

A wet wicket and rain is saving your lot here. Root and Bayliss pressing hard on the game not continuing. This series could still be alive yet.

 

[Ken 119]

ok, maybe not.

[Ken 119]

Not trying to make a mountain over a molehill here but this could be a whacking that could affect England long term. Not sure how Root will recover after this series, the added responsibility of captaincy must way on his mind while trying to find form with the bat, and there are calls for Broad and Cook to retire which isn't out of line. Anderson is 35 and won't be around for the next Ashes series. You need desperately to find some new blood when it is all said and done - a period of regeneration.

[David Kelly 1205]

Who are the calls for our players to retire from?  I've not heard them here.  Clearly given his age, Anderson isn't going to have more than a couple of years left in him but I don't see any of the others calling it a day any time soon.   Cook is out of nick at the moment but I think he's got a lot still to give and I've no doubt Root will get back to his best.

 

Our bowlers are completely unsuited to Australian conditions.  That was the fear before the series started and has been proven right.  Of course having probably the best all rounder in the world unavailable hurt us massively but the fitness of Wood, Finn and Roland Jones also did.  

 

I don't think there's any need for a completely overhaul of the team, but we certainly need to put some focus into developing bowlers who can be more effective in overseas conditions, both spinners and quicks.  And we also need a change of mentality.  The way Bayliss has gone about things has done wonders for our white ball game but we don't seem the right mentality when things are going wrong.  We either keep going to hard and lose too many stupid wickets or we are too meek (like we have been so far this series).  Both ways of playing lead to the collapses that we see all too often.

[Dr Gloom 21302]

@ken

 

yes, i think that's fair. some great players are coming to the ends of their careers. 2017 has been a poor year for Broad and Cook, the double hundred against Windies aside. i wouldn't be surprised if cook calls it a day. the problem is who replaces him?

 

i still think we will beat most teams at home with the current lineup. but there's a case for the selectors and bayliss to go. we need to find a way to try to win in places like australia and india. that means trying to unearth some proper fast bowlers and a proper spinner - where they come from, i don't know. 

 

on the plus side, i think stoneman, malan and overton can take something from this series and we've been in all three test matches to a degree without ever dominating - they fought harder than a more talented side managed to last time around. but credit where it's due. australia streets ahead of us in home conditions. 

Edited December 18, 2017 by Dr Gloom

[David Kelly 1205]

There's not really a team in the world who seem able to win regularly away from home at the minute.  India have swept aside everyone this year but all the series they have played have been in conditions they know how to play in.  Can they do the same away from the sub continent?  I doubt it personally.

We have been comfortable at home but were poor in India and are looking poor again now.  Australia weren't great in India or Bangladesh.

[Ken 119]

2 minutes ago, David Kelly said:

There's not really a team in the world who seem able to win regularly away from home at the minute.  India have swept aside everyone this year but all the series they have played have been in conditions they know how to play in.  Can they do the same away from the sub continent?  I doubt it personally.

We have been comfortable at home but were poor in India and are looking poor again now.  Australia weren't great in India or Bangladesh.

We are looking good now though. It is a young side collectively with plenty of improvement in it given the inexperience. We are building. We go to South Africa next with confidence. We will get better over the next three years, we haven't peaked yet.

[Ken 119]

20 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

@ken

 

yes, i think that's fair. some great players are coming to the ends of their careers. 2017 has been a poor year for Broad and Cook, the double hundred against Windies aside. i wouldn't be surprised if cook calls it a day. the problem is who replaces him?

 

i still think we will beat most teams at home with the current lineup. but there's a case for the selectors and bayliss to go. we need to find a way to try to win in places like australia and india. that means trying to unearth some proper fast bowlers and a proper spinner - where they come from, i don't know. 

 

on the plus side, i think stoneman, malan and overton can take something from this series and we've been in all three test matches to a degree without ever dominating - they fought harder than a more talented side managed to last time around. but credit where it's due. australia streets ahead of us in home conditions. 

And Broad? He has genuinely looked uninterested in this series.

 

It is an end of a good era for you now, decisions need to be made as to where you go from here over the next four or five.

 

Your touring 'rookies' have been good, but there are serious questions on those who have been the backbone for a decade. Not a position of power given the lack of solutions.

[Dr Gloom 21302]

i think they can all still do it in home conditions. broad in particular has a good record of running through your batting lineup in short bursts. the issue is whether they still have the desire to continue touring when they haven't convinced abroad recently. 

[Ken 119]

We have the ability to get 20 wickets in England now. We just need our batsmen (other than Warner and Smith) to contribute. That is a work in progress.

 

I don't think Anderson will be there and if he is he is on the wrong side of 30 and wrapped in cotton wool. You may need to stick with Cook and Broad if there aren't alternatives putting up their hands.

[David Kelly 1205]

53 minutes ago, Ken said:

We are looking good now though. It is a young side collectively with plenty of improvement in it given the inexperience. We are building. We go to South Africa next with confidence. We will get better over the next three years, we haven't peaked yet.

Your attack looks good but only Smith really looks good with the bat (I do rate Warner but he's not done anything special so far this series).  Bancroft and Renshaw are nothing special, Usman can't perform outside Australia and hasn't looked great, neither of the Marsh's have ever looked much (obviously they've both had a good knock each against us), the jury is out on Paine, his stats don't suggest there's much there but he's don't pretty well on his comeback.  If there was another series in England in the summer I wouldn't be concerned about any of them.  Even Smith would be a much lesser threat.  

South Africa will be a good test for you, especially if AB and Steyn play.  But I wouldn't be getting too excited just yet.  You have hammered us tbf but don't let our deficiencies in this series make you think you're better than what you are.

[Alex 34093]

Going off this year Broad's either finished or not fully fit. It's poor by the selectors either way tbh.

[Dr Gloom 21302]

@Ken

 

i think haseeb hameed looks like he has the technique to make it as an opener. the selectors wanted him to play in this series but he suffered with form and injury this year. they probably see him, and now stoneman, aroudn our top 3, with cook - if he continue. keaton jennings scored a century on debut but i'm not convinced he is up to opening in tests. 

 

anderson is still a magician with the ball at home. he's always been a naturally fit guy and doesn't rely on lung bursting effort for that extra yard of pace. it wouldn't surprise me if he's still going next time you tour here. i think cook and broad are more likely to call it a day by then, if the selectors don't take the decision out of their hands

Edited December 18, 2017 by Dr Gloom