The Cricket Thread

[Dr Gloom 21760]

Is anyone watching this? Best test match I've seen England involved in for years

[toonotl 2916]

Well played England. Great result. I can see everyone is thrilled.

[Alex 34725]

Absolutely scintillating match. Test cricket at its best pisses on all other formats of the game.

[Dr Gloom 21760]

absolutely. mad how new zealand made over 500 hundred in the first innings with a lead of 140 or so and ended up losing. my mate and i had talked about going to queue for a ticket for the final day yesterday morning. wish we had now.

[David Kelly 1217]

Was a fantastic test match, easily the best I've ever watched. It's a shame the football got in the way on Sunday because I missed most of Stokes batting but I really enjoyed his bowling in both innings (even if he got no luck on Saturday).

 

I just hope we can build around Root, Stokes and Butler because they all look like they're going to be very good players.

[toonotl 2916]

Yeah I watched McCullum's post-match interview and he was pretty upbeat about the NZ performance. England just played some top top cricket when it mattered.

 

I still think England have some issues. Namely the lack of a spinner and some weak performances by a few mid-order batsmen. England can't rely on Stokes to score a 90 and a 100 and take 3 key second innings wickets every game.

 

All credit to Root and Stokes though they showed their talent and Cook showed his class. Brilliant win by your lot.

[toonotl 2916]

Not sure I agree with the approach NZ have taken so far here.

 

Is there a lot of rain predicted or something? That's the only justification I can see for why NZ were so reckless in their attempts to score quick runs yesterday.

[toonotl 2916]

Seems like another cracking Test match in the making going into Day 3.

 

Fingers crossed NZ can roll England quickly and get back to making 300 off 60 overs and setup an exciting 4th innings.

 

What's everyone think?

[toonotl 2916]

What's everyone think?

 

[Alex 34725]

I think it's more like the summer I expected

Great stuff though, NZ are my favourite team in terms of entertainment and attitude

[toonotl 2916]

Yeah they're definitely entertaining.

 

Normally we've always had an entertaining cricket side for its comedic value. So I'm really glad the side is probably as good as it's been since Hadlee was playing in the 80s.

 

So although this is the best NZ side I can remember. I'm gonna be a bit of a stick in the mud and say I do think they're over doing it at times on the aggression.

[Alex 34725]

Yeah they're definitely entertaining.

 

Normally we've always had an entertaining cricket side for its comedic value. So I'm really glad the side is probably as good as it's been since Hadlee was playing in the 80s.

 

So although this is the best NZ side I can remember. I'm gonna be a bit of a stick in the mud and say I do think they're over doing it at times on the aggression.

Hadlee was fantastic like. Absolute artist. A good batsman but what a bowler. He had that wiry build which was perfect for fast bowling without putting too much strain on the body. What an action as well. Remember when he played in the side that beat England over here for the first time (would've been about 1986). It was a good side though, captained by Jeremy Coney and had a young Martin Crowe plus the likes of Ian Smith and John Wright in the team.

[toonotl 2916]

Yeah. I only saw the remnants of that NZ team play when I was really young so I don't remember it too well. But I know we had a decent side back then. Crowe was the only legitimate world class batsmen we'd ever had until recently. Andrew Jones was a decent batsmen too on his day. John Wright was a proper old school grafter. He'd be up there with the likes of Boycott in terms of dour batsmenship. Ian Smith was a quality keeper too. Have you seen him lately? He'd still do a job because he's about as wide as a house. Nothing would get past him.

 

Hadlee was brilliant though. He had the purest rhythm to his bowling. I always thought Shane Bond's action was similar to Hadlee's although Bond wasn't quite as spindly as Hadlee. And there wasn't that effortlessness to Bond that Hadlee seemed to have.

[Alex 34725]

Yeah. I only saw the remnants of that NZ team play when I was really young so I don't remember it too well. But I know we had a decent side back then. Crowe was the only legitimate world class batsmen we'd ever had until recently. Andrew Jones was a decent batsmen too on his day. John Wright was a proper old school grafter. He'd be up there with the likes of Boycott in terms of dour batsmenship. Ian Smith was a quality keeper too. Have you seen him lately? He'd still do a job because he's about as wide as a house. Nothing would get past him.

 

Hadlee was brilliant though. He had the purest rhythm to his bowling. I always thought Shane Bond's action was similar to Hadlee's although Bond wasn't quite as spindly as Hadlee. And there wasn't that effortlessness to Bond that Hadlee seemed to have.

Ian Smith does a fair bit of commentary on Sky, Channel 5 and the like. Like you say, looks like he like a pie and a pint.

[toonotl 2916]

That's a good declaration. England can still win it. They'll have to break records to do it. But its a carrot of sorts.

[Alex 34725]

Think England could do with the loss to ram home the fact there's still some issues, especially in the bowling department and, in particular, the lack of a proper spinner. Moeen needs to be in the side for his batting ability to warrant a place, as opposed to playing at number 8. Too late to experiment before the Ashes now though.

[toonotl 2916]

Spot on. But to be honest, if they can't see that the balance of the side is off, I don't think one loss is going to change anything.

 

Moeen Ali needs to be getting picked on the basis that he can win his side a match with the ball in the 4th innings of a Test match. Then he needs to be able to tie down an end and chip in with the odd wicket here and there at other times. If the ECB can't see that that's not what he offers then the lot of them are mad.

 

He's a quality cricketer, but you're right. If he can't get picked as a batsmen. He shouldn't be in the side.

[Alex 34725]

Spot on. But to be honest, if they can't see that the balance of the side is off, I don't think one loss is going to change anything.

 

Moeen Ali needs to be getting picked on the basis that he can win his side a match with the ball in the 4th innings of a Test match. Then he needs to be able to tie down an end and chip in with the odd wicket here and there at other times. If the ECB can't see that that's not what he offers then the lot of them are mad.

 

He's a quality cricketer, but you're right. If he can't get picked as a batsmen. He shouldn't be in the side.

Aye, he's a really good cricketer and a very easy on the eye in terms of his batting but Root is a decent part-time spinner and Mooen is arguably just a little better than that. He gives it a rip but he's not consistent enough at the minute. Like you say, a spinner needs to (ideally) be able to hold down and end and win a match bowling last when conditions suit. You can't really rely on him to do either at present and you need to be able to one of those things at the very least at that level.

[David Kelly 1217]

Is there any other options for England in terms of spin though? Tredwell has been the nearest to playing and he's not anything startling. If none of the spinners are very good you might as well pick another batsman who can spin a bit.

[Alex 34725]

Is there any other options for England in terms of spin though? Tredwell has been the nearest to playing and he's not anything startling. If none of the spinners are very good you might as well pick another batsman who can spin a bit.

Well they took Adil Rashid to the West Indies (which is basically like the subcontinent in terms of pitches these days) and they could have easily given him a go and played two spinners there. They'd probably have won the series if they had. On top of that, he's a talented batsman with a few first class 100s and a batting average in the mid 30s in that form of the game. I would say he's certainly good enough to bat at number 8. He would likely be expensive at times, being a leg spinner who gives it a tweak, but he's wicket taker. He's an option they could've looked at before now anyway.

[toonotl 2916]

In my opinion I don't think the answer to the lack of an obvious spin option is just to pick a batsmen who happens bowl some useful off spin.

The proactive approach would be to identify someone (maybe a youngster) with some talent and give him a go.

I know nothing about Rashid but if he's that talented youngster then you've got to play him.

There is no way that in the entire county system in England there is not one promising spin bowler who could be picked. It just shows how conservative England's selection policy is that they'd rather be a bowler short and know what they're getting rather than take a chance and possibly unearth a gem.

[David Kelly 1217]

Rashid's 27 though. I know that he could still have a good few years left but he's not what you'd call a youngster. I know what you're saying though and I agree if there is someone out there. I don't know enough about the county players but from what the comentators were saying yesterday there's not much in the way of options.

 

I still think Rashid should have been given a go in the West Indies and this series but from what they seem to be saying I'm not convinced he's the answer.

[Alex 34725]

Rashid's 27 though. I know that he could still have a good few years left but he's not what you'd call a youngster. I know what you're saying though and I agree if there is someone out there. I don't know enough about the county players but from what the comentators were saying yesterday there's not much in the way of options.

 

I still think Rashid should have been given a go in the West Indies and this series but from what they seem to be saying I'm not convinced he's the answer.

27 isn't that old for a spinner. You really have to learn your trade. Saeed Ajmal is 37. I'm not saying he's another Shane Warne because that's a once in a lifetime type of bowler. What I would say is that he's a very attacking option and the Aussies will go after whoever else plays in any case (Moeen or Treadwell being the main other options). You might as well have a genuine wicket taker in there because a bowler like Treadwell will get smashed all over the park anyway by top class attacking batsmen. But aye, obviously a lack of options is a problem.

[David Kelly 1217]

27 isn't that old for a spinner. You really have to learn your trade. Saeed Ajmal is 37. I'm not saying he's another Shane Warne because that's a once in a lifetime type of bowler. What I would say is that he's a very attacking option and the Aussies will go after whoever else plays in any case (Moeen or Treadwell being the main other options). You might as well have a genuine wicket taker in there because a bowler like Treadwell will get smashed all over the park anyway by top class attacking batsmen. But aye, obviously a lack of options is a problem.

Yeah I don't think 27 is too old to be coming into the team, I just meant that he's not a young kid. I know very little about him but I think it was Atherton yesterday who basically was saying we have no one to pick from. I took that as meaning he didn't really rate Rashid either. Maybe he was just meaning in comparission to Swan or the seamers we have.

[Dr Gloom 21760]

Agree with you all in this issue. Madness not to give rashid a go on the windies tour. Our lack of a frontline spinner will be exposed during the ashes. Moheen doesn't look like he can tie up an end at the moment, let alone bowl us to victory.