Park Life 71 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Good article that. Cheers. Kurds are pretty good fighters with staying power...Properly backed they would piss all over Isis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobos 298 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) the propaganda video I mentioned isn't ghoulish as such, its just showing it how it is, the reason I brought it up is that people seem to think this is a cooked up western non existent threat. Mock my view that IS is not a result of us bombing syria all you want. These guys have already fucked the kurdish fighters and are aiming for europe , primarily rome. They are nutters and need stamping out . Once they get their total border with europe and iran, its going to be a shit load harder to stop them. I'll bite Park Life and if I've been a tit I'll hold my hands up, but debating with "you are so factually wrong....." without actually contesting any statement or giving any indication of whats wrong, just suggests that you believe your VIEW is fact. Also, if you're going to use big words like moribund , learn what it means Edited October 14, 2014 by scoobos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35614 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 @@RedfernMag Interesting read that. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 the propaganda video I mentioned isn't ghoulish as such, its just showing it how it is, the reason I brought it up is that people seem to think this is a cooked up western non existent threat. Mock my view that IS is not a result of us bombing syria all you want. These guys have already fucked the kurdish fighters and are aiming for europe , primarily rome. They are nutters and need stamping out . Once they get their total border with europe and iran, its going to be a shit load harder to stop them. I'll bite Park Life and if I've been a tit I'll hold my hands up, but debating with "you are so factually wrong....." without actually contesting any statement or giving any indication of whats wrong, just suggests that you believe your VIEW is fact. Also, if you're going to use big words like moribund , learn what it means Behave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobos 298 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 So nothing then? Well, after all the stuff i've seen and read over the past 6 months they scare the shit out of me. They are making nazi germany look moderate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) ISIS was/is a complete quasi - Western invention as a back door to to have another crack at the destabilisation of Syria (it can be argued that's gone way off course). It's why they were left alone for months with money coming in from the usual American stooges (Saudi/Bahrain/Turkey)...to carry out their hit and run and flag raising/beheading hi jinx. Militarily they'd honestly have a hard time taking 'The Shed'. They haven't come up against any proper opposition so far (the Peshmurgha) being the closet to putting up a proper fight. Most of the the others just dropped their expensive guns and ran... I'd send the SAS out there on a jolly, would clean this shit up in a month. Edited October 14, 2014 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimaad22 4222 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 These guys have already fucked the kurdish fighters and are aiming for europe , primarily rome. They are nutters and need stamping out . Once they get their total border with europe and iran, its going to be a shit load harder to stop them. The toys the Americans have provided them with means they can wreck havoc in war torn places like Syria or Iraq. Not a chance in hell of them going up against Europe or Iran. Not unless Obama decides to gift them a few war planes and advanced warships too. You'd have to have very poor general knowledge to buy into this fallacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobos 298 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) I don't understand the view that the US has been arming them. I've personally seen or read no evidence to suggest it either. They are stealing US equipment from the enemy, not being issued it. This whole syria thing seems misguided, when did we ever arm Al Q? The leadership of ISIS were all locked up by us in Iraq until 18 months ago, and separated from Al Q not by their choice either. Believing our <2000 (1608 ?) strong special forces could wipe over 50,000 troops is a bit bonkers too. if you watch any of their propoganda videos you see lots of them die, but they have taken US held positions when fighting alongside Al Q, and you can clearly see them rout the enemy. These airstrikes aren't working either, in last weeks vid, they were slaughtering kurds and laughing as the single jet plane flew overhead and took out one of their 30 or so jeeps. Sure its propaganda and I do accept that, but theres no fooling on the territory they control. I guess time will tell, I just worry that without free media , we are being fed a crock of shit on how we can change anything without a proper full scale ground war. It doesnt help that we've had a sham war on terror, that was really about the petro dollar and oil, now the real thing is rearing up and we are jaded. I know im ranting a little, but really I dont see any evidence to support the theories of US support (Turkey is looking dodgy tbh) and think this is just another darfur / mini holocaust scenario where the west has its eyes closed. When they are capturing soilders by the thousands and executing them, raiding houses of all the anti terrorism leaders and beheading them (co-incidentally in offices that we set up , further debunking the us support theory) and finally street to street raping and enslaving women, shooting all men who don't join and beheading children, something needs to be done in the name of humanity. All with the caveat of my opinion, but I do feel that sites like I've mentiined before are moral and that its immoral to not make the public aware of what has gone on, we did it post holocaust, lets not do it again post Islamic State. alright , im off me soapbox now ! Edited October 14, 2014 by scoobos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17698 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I don't understand the view that the US has been arming them. I've personally seen or read no evidence to suggest it either. They are stealing US equipment from the enemy, not being issued it. This whole syria thing seems misguided, when did we ever arm Al Q? errr.... http://www.theinsider.org/news/article.asp?id=0228 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobos 298 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) I knew osama was helped, but I mean in terms of isis and modern times, fighting the ruskies was decades ago, it's not relevant now is it? That history does not back the view given that they were armed to destabilise syria, which is of little value to us anyway. Edited October 14, 2014 by scoobos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) Military doctrine suggests that irregular forces like ISIS are a general ratio of 25/1 with regard to accomplished soldiers and volunteer die hards/ fanatics with little battle training. Looking at the make up of IS I'd say its main fighting capability are Chechen, ex-Afghanistan and Bosnians and various Arab mainly Sunni groupings. A mix of special forces ie SAS, GSG, Delta Force...Marines and so on..would have the role of harassing at night and picking off the leaders and best fighters..This is devastatingly demoralising for an irregular and disorganised army who are planning on the hoof. The Special forces also act as accurate spotters for air supports taking out smaller pods of fighters where they rest/hide. IS having to fight night and day would soon think about getting the fuck out...Especially while losing its leadership on a nightly basis. Edited October 14, 2014 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobos 298 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 If that is so, then why did we lose afganistan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) If that is so, then why did we lose afganistan? Cause we were fighting everybody in a country where everyone has a gun and knows the terrain - mountains (which is ideal for guerilla warfare), not 2,000 odd battle hardened jihadis camped out mainly on the plains. Morale amongst the Afghan mountain fighters is some of the highest in the world along with the ability to chose when to fight and when to hide...Jihadi morale is mainly held together by money and not religion as the media would have one believe...They're all making loads of dollars every day they fight. That's why when the going got tough in Syria they got the fuck out and moved into Iraq.... Edited October 14, 2014 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobos 298 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) Ok. I hold a different view, I suppose time will tell. Good debate though. They are still very much active in syria and there are over 50,000 of them according to reports. 10,000 on baghdad today. I'm not sure they are money motivated, watching the leaders speeches, they remind me of the Khymer Rouge in that they seem very uneducated and to me they do seem motivated by ideology. The thing that struck me the most is that they dont seem to have any thought as to whos going to produce the things they need such as cars, technology etc if they get what they want. They expanded rather than got out, they want to restore the borders to pre- british / western borders. They want syria to iraq on all sides, they may well achieve this I reckon, then thats why I start to get a bit of a squeaky bum. A magazine they published this month has the IS flag on the vatican. Edited October 14, 2014 by scoobos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimaad22 4222 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Cause we were fighting everybody in a country where everyone has a gun and knows the terrain - mountains (which is ideal for guerilla warfare), not 2,000 odd battle hardened jihadis camped out mainly on the plains. Morale amongst the Afghan mountain fighters is some of the highest in the world along with the ability to chose when to fight and when to hide...Jihadi morale is mainly held together by money and not religion as the media would have one believe...They're all making loads of dollars every day they fight. That's why when the going got tough in Syria they got the fuck out and moved into Iraq.... Aye, Afghanistan is a completely different scenario. They've been at it for centuries. Warlords provide all the organised rule there is in many parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedfernMag 0 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 @@scoobos It's probably worth your time taking a look at the Adam Curtis documentary 'The Power of Nightmares' to get a pretty decent background on this. The current situation with IS is a continuation of events depicted in that program. It's worth highlighting that IS were born out of the insurgency against the Assad regime, an insurgency backed by the US/west and it's allies, and factoring into this Assad releasing scores of islamist prisoners from his own prisons in a move Bobby Fischer would of been proud of. Here's the full 3 part documentary online, originally shown on Channel 4 in 2004. http://thoughtmaybe.com/the-power-of-nightmares/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedfernMag 0 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Cause we were fighting everybody in a country where everyone has a gun and knows the terrain - mountains (which is ideal for guerilla warfare), not 2,000 odd battle hardened jihadis camped out mainly on the plains. Morale amongst the Afghan mountain fighters is some of the highest in the world along with the ability to chose when to fight and when to hide...Jihadi morale is mainly held together by money and not religion as the media would have one believe...They're all making loads of dollars every day they fight. That's why when the going got tough in Syria they got the fuck out and moved into Iraq.... spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35614 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 @@scoobos It's probably worth your time taking a look at the Adam Curtis documentary 'The Power of Nightmares' to get a pretty decent background on this. The current situation with IS is a continuation of events depicted in that program. It's worth highlighting that IS were born out of the insurgency against the Assad regime, an insurgency backed by the US/west and it's allies, and factoring into this Assad releasing scores of islamist prisoners from his own prisons in a move Bobby Fischer would of been proud of. Here's the full 3 part documentary online, originally shown on Channel 4 in 2004. http://thoughtmaybe.com/the-power-of-nightmares/ Not seen that but I like his blog on the beeb and the way he uses old stock footage. Will try to check those out when I have a spare hour or three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedfernMag 0 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Not seen that but I like his blog on the beeb and the way he uses old stock footage. Will try to check those out when I have a spare hour or three. Aye he always uses great archival footage, all of his other doco's/films are available on that site to view: http://thoughtmaybe.com/by/adam-curtis/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35614 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Cheers, will have a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobos 298 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Thanks for the link, I'll watch it this week. Background aside, my concerns remain of the current status. As an insight to me, I hold multifaceted views on big politics, I wasn't popular after september the 11th as it happened shortly after I learned about the USA and Isreal, Lebanon and the fact that they irradiated their own people during the cold war. So I'm not carrying a one sided agenda, and I do think we can destroy them at the moment, but not with airstrikes or apathy. I want us to do what the French did in Mali but that boat is sailing as they grow in experience and power. That aside, the current position doesn't seem as controllable as people have comfort in thinking. I still doubt the us fund them as Islamic State, and daily see victories for them and losses for humanity. The famous troop running incident in Iraq that has led us to think that it's a matter of them being poor soilders, but the propoganda video from IS shows the big picture. They systemstically target leadership of the military and heads of departments in house to house searches before the assault, as they encircle positions very quickly in their shitty little jeeps. Once they are in the murders begin, the women get enslaved then they move on with some new recruits (or in IS terms, those that repent in the mosque meeting, after a short demonstration of street killing) Rantings again , but yeah I'll go watch that vid and stay off watching IS as i've become obssessed, maybe Island fever, I haven't been off in a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 22185 Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 It's troubling that they're on the border of Turkey. You'd have thought the Turks would get more involved but it's a tough one for them domestically Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35614 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 It's troubling that they're on the border of Turkey. You'd have thought the Turks would get more involved but it's a tough one for them domestically Haven't they been there for months? Also, isn't it just a line on a map in this particular area rather than a some heavily defended boundary. Also, I don't think IS are going to launch an invasion of Turkey (what's been stopping them before now if they wanted to?) because they'd get their arses kicked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 46088 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Haven't they been there for months? Also, isn't it just a line on a map in this particular area rather than a some heavily defended boundary. Also, I don't think IS are going to launch an invasion of Turkey (what's been stopping them before now if they wanted to?) because they'd get their arses kicked.I was in Marmaris in May, so they're probably wanting to make sure that I've definitely cleared the area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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