Lee Charnley

[LooneyToony 41]

Charnley is going to fuck up the negotiations with Rafa. If I had quid I'd put quite a few on it, but I only have CDN. dollars.

[adios 717]

How much do you want to put on and at what odds?

[toonotl 2979]

Hey, if you guys want to feel all pessimistic about the future based on one window in time, feel free

 

I just don't think that plays any part in where we are now or where we are going.

 

From memory over the last 5 years we are in the top 10 for net spend. Cash being available has not been our downfall.

 

Rafa, if he signs, will have everything he wants nailed down. Ashley has been clear we can spend what we generate.

 

Good times are a coming.

 

#TrudgersGonnaTrudge

[Alex 35083]

We've had some good finishers here over the last few season, Cisse, Ba and Remy. Last season we didn't which imo is the biggest weak point in last seasons team.

 

It's quite a separate issue from the one made earlier which is that I see no reason why "cuts" will be made once promoted.

 

Irrespective of which was the weak point that needed addressing most, since it's a cyclical argument now, you're missing HF's point about a signing like Defoe. Mitrovic fits the pattern of signing someone with potential sell-on value, but being unproven in the PL, it was a risk. The same applied to Cisse. And I don't think that paid off either. He had a purple patch when he first arrived then has steadily gone down hill. I don't think you could say he was a top finisher either though. When he's hot he's hot but when he's not, some of the misses he makes are appallingly bad. That's by the by though. Ba was signed because he was on a free and because of his fitness issues we were able to pick him up. You couldn't say he was a Defoe-type signing though because he wasn't someone with a proven PL pedigree over a long period of time either. And Remy was never a permanent signing because he were never willing to match the sort of wages he was able to command. So, as was being pointed out we'd never sign a Defoe-type, proven, experienced in the Premier League with track record of goals over a long period. Therefore we're always going to taking a larger risk on any new striker than clubs willing to pay for those who've proven themselves in this country in the top flight. That's down to the owner and his strategy.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

 

Irrespective of which was the weak point that needed addressing most, since it's a cyclical argument now, you're missing HF's point about a signing like Defoe. Mitrovic fits the pattern of signing someone with potential sell-on value, but being unproven in the PL, it was a risk. The same applied to Cisse. And I don't think that paid off either. He had a purple patch when he first arrived then has steadily gone down hill. I don't think you could say he was a top finisher either though. When he's hot he's hot but when he's not, some of the misses he makes are appallingly bad. That's by the by though. Ba was signed because he was on a free and because of his fitness issues we were able to pick him up. You couldn't say he was a Defoe-type signing though because he wasn't someone with a proven PL pedigree over a long period of time either. And Remy was never a permanent signing because he were never willing to match the sort of wages he was able to command. So, as was being pointed out we'd never sign a Defoe-type, proven, experienced in the Premier League with track record of goals over a long period. Therefore we're always going to taking a larger risk on any new striker than clubs willing to pay for those who've proven themselves in this country in the top flight. That's down to the owner and his strategy.

 

Some of that maybe true, but Ashley let McLaren and Carr do their own thing this year and gave them plenty of money to do it with. In January Shelvey wasn't a normal Ashley buy but they got him. Basically they fucked around trying to get that WBA player, waited too long and had no plan B.

 

Rafa will no doubt have the same freedom but will recruit better.

[Alex 35083]

Some of that maybe true, but Ashley let McLaren and Carr do their own thing this year and gave them plenty of money to do it with. In January Shelvey wasn't a normal Ashley buy but they got him. Basically they fucked around trying to get that WBA player, waited too long and had no plan B.

 

Rafa will no doubt have the same freedom but will recruit better.

Well Shelvey is young and English and relatively cheap in the current market. Not suggesting he represents value for money though. We were also rather desperate and his club were more than happy to get rid. Our situation dictated a change from the normal plan, not Ashley allowing others free rein.

As for not getting Berahino, I doubt he was ever going to come - Spurs have been interested for a while and WBA didn't seem arsed about cashing in in January. Actively opposed to doing it with a potential relegation rival arguably.

And are you actually suggesting the club supposedly going for player A, missing out (again, if you believe we ever really had a chance) then not appearing to have a plan B represents a change in policy? Fuck off man

[Christmas Tree 4725]

Well Shelvey is young and English and relatively cheap in the current market. Not suggesting he represents value for money though. We were also rather desperate and his club were more than happy to get rid. Our situation dictated a change from the normal plan, not Ashley allowing others free rein.

As for not getting Berahino, I doubt he was ever going to come - Spurs have been interested for a while and WBA didn't seem arsed about cashing in in January. Actively opposed to doing it with a potential relegation rival arguably.

And are you actually suggesting the club supposedly going for player A, missing out (again, if you believe we ever really had a chance) then not appearing to have a plan B represents a change in policy? Fuck off man

What I'm saying is the money was there to spend over the last 12 months and we spent it very poorly.

 

I think Rafa will execute those plans much better.

[Alex 35083]

I agree he'll be promised autonomy over signings if he stays. But you were arguing there was the same freedom over who was signed when McClaren was manager. There's very little evidence to back that up. I have no doubt Rafa would've have spent the money more wisely and effectively last summer but last January isn't proof of anything other than panic.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Alex

[Holden McGroin 6587]

CT v The World - again.

[Dr Gloom 21924]

Some of that maybe true, but Ashley let McLaren and Carr do their own thing this year and gave them plenty of money to do it with. In January Shelvey wasn't a normal Ashley buy but they got him. Basically they fucked around trying to get that WBA player, waited too long and had no plan B.

 

Rafa will no doubt have the same freedom but will recruit better.

All of it's true, you behemoth

[The Fish 10857]

Give over man. Rafa managed to polish the defence up not too bad in a very short time, he couldn't quite polish the turds upfront though.

Dunno how many times I'm going to have to show you the GF, GA and GD columns before it clicks for you.

[Happy Face 29]

Ashley let McLaren and Carr do their own thing this year

 

 

In that he restricted them to buying

• players under 25 years old
• players under £15m
• players who weren't getting a game at their existing club
• players nearing the end of their contract
• players available for buttons
• loanees

 

Other than that, carte blanche

 

In January Shelvey wasn't a normal Ashley buy but they got him.

 

Other than being under 25, not getting a game at his existing club, nearing the end of his contract. Actiually, hang on, he is exactly the sort of Ashley signing the club has been set up to bring in for years.

 

 

 

Basically they fucked around trying to get that WBA player, waited too long and had no plan B.

 

Berahino? The player we walked away from because they wanted £20m?

 

More evidence of Ashley's patented bargain hunting method IYAM.

 

That said, i don't believe we had any intention of signing him and it was the same "couldn't get him over the line" shite we see every window. Where was the £15m to £20m going to come from if WBA had dropped the asking price? Ashley has since said the bank account was emptied bringing in what we did (Doumbia )

[Christmas Tree 4725]

Dunno how many times I'm going to have to show you the GF, GA and GD columns before it clicks for you.

Save your breath, please. If we'd have been 2-0 up in the first 20 minutes then the stats (for what they're worth), would be totally different.

 

Football opinion isn't scientific, it's opinion. I like many many many others believe we would not have been relegated if we'd bought a striker who could finish in January.

 

Your opinion is that we'd have been better off with a left back. You're wrong, but it's your opinion and you're welcome to it

[Christmas Tree 4725]

 

 

In that he restricted them to buying

• players under 25 years old
• players under £15m
• players who weren't getting a game at their existing club
• players nearing the end of their contract
• players available for buttons
• loanees

Other than that, carte blanche

 

 

Other than being under 25, not getting a game at his existing club, nearing the end of his contract. Actiually, hang on, he is exactly the sort of Ashley signing the club has been set up to bring in for years.

 

 

Berahino? The player we walked away from because they wanted £20m?

 

More evidence of Ashley's patented bargain hunting method IYAM.

 

That said, i don't believe we had any intention of signing him and it was the same "couldn't get him over the line" shite we see every window. Where was the £15m to £20m going to come from if WBA had dropped the asking price? Ashley has since said the bank account was emptied bringing in what we did (Doumbia )

You're wrong and I'm too pissed to get into it.

 

We're Gini, Mitrovic, Thauvin not getting a game at their old clubs.

[adios 717]

Save your breath, please. If we'd have been 2-0 up in the first 20 minutes then the stats (for what they're worth), would be totally different.

 

Football opinion isn't scientific, it's opinion. I like many many many others believe we would not have been relegated if we'd bought a striker who could finish in January.

 

Your opinion is that we'd have been better off with a left back. You're wrong, but it's your opinion and you're welcome to it

Just because the science is more muddled, doesn't mean it's less accurate than random conjecture.

[Happy Face 29]

You're wrong and I'm too pissed to get into it.

 

We're Gini, Mitrovic, Thauvin not getting a game at their old clubs.

 

You've only measured them against one of the criteria. Others apply to them.

 

We're talking about why we won't sign the likes of Defoe, Austin or Berahino. Players who only match one of the criteria, max.

[The Fish 10857]

Save your breath, please. If we'd have been 2-0 up in the first 20 minutes then the stats (for what they're worth), would be totally different.

 

Football opinion isn't scientific, it's opinion. I like many many many others believe we would not have been relegated if we'd bought a striker who could finish in January.

 

Your opinion is that we'd have been better off with a left back. You're wrong, but it's your opinion and you're welcome to it

 

That's not what I've said, I said we'd have survived had we bought defensive cover in the summer/had a competent defensive coach.

 

The three relegated clubs had the worst defence.

We had the 13th best attack

Our leading goal scorer had 11 goals, our 2nd had 8

 

 

Scoring goals wasn't the biggest problem, that prize goes to the fool we employed as Head Coach. But it was the goals we conceded that sent us down. In our first 10 games we scored 12 goals, we conceded 22! Our last 10 (with a decent coach) we scored 16 and conceded 12.

 

McClaren's stewardship saw us score 28 goals, and concede 53. Basically we, on average, lost games 2-1. A goal a game scored doesn't scream a problem up front, conceding 2 a game says there's a problem at the back.

[Rayvin 5223]

I actually think there's room here to say we were poor all over the pitch frankly. Fish's post does make sense though.

[gpirlo68 0]

The biggest problem during McClaren's 'reign' is that the team had no sense of organisation whatsoever, nobody in the team seemed to know their job

 

The players just looked lost on the pitch, it was clear early on that the players lost respect for Steve imo

[NJS 4386]

Imo It was the way he set them up away from home to play for 0-0 - almost Allardyce like.

[The Fish 10857]

I actually think there's room here to say we were poor all over the pitch frankly. Fish's post does make sense though.

Absolutely, and blame has to go to McClaren for not getting a tune out of that team and it has to go to the men in charge of recruitment.

 

That said, I personally think it's easier to get average defenders playing well as a unit, than it is to guarantee a striker will score 15+ goals.

[Howmanheyman 33223]

There was no fear of McClaren from the players, no respect and let's be honest, any player spending more than a couple of months here will pick up on the ethos of Ashley's NUFC fairly quickly including not being too arsed about a lame duck manager. McClaren was never going to do well here despite some optimistic noises from some on here. And obviously that's not even factoring in the lopsided recruitment processes and Charnley doing the deals. The latter is in place because he'll be compliant to the smallest detail.

[The Fish 10857]

There was no fear of McClaren from the players, no respect and let's be honest, any player spending more than a couple of months here will pick up on the ethos of Ashley's NUFC fairly quickly including not being too arsed about a lame duck manager. McClaren was never going to do well here despite some optimistic noises from some on here. And obviously that's not even factoring in the lopsided recruitment processes and Charnley doing the deals. The latter is in place because he'll be compliant to the smallest detail.

There were definitely players being picked on reputation and not performances.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

 

That's not what I've said, I said we'd have survived had we bought defensive cover in the summer/had a competent defensive coach.

 

The three relegated clubs had the worst defence.

We had the 13th best attack

Our leading goal scorer had 11 goals, our 2nd had 8

 

 

Scoring goals wasn't the biggest problem, that prize goes to the fool we employed as Head Coach. But it was the goals we conceded that sent us down. In our first 10 games we scored 12 goals, we conceded 22! Our last 10 (with a decent coach) we scored 16 and conceded 12.

 

McClaren's stewardship saw us score 28 goals, and concede 53. Basically we, on average, lost games 2-1. A goal a game scored doesn't scream a problem up front, conceding 2 a game says there's a problem at the back.

No, what you and others said was that in January, a left back was thee priority, not a striker. That's just plain bollocks.

 

All the other stuff about last summer and Benitez being a better manager than McLaren I agree with and have already mentioned in this thread.

[The Fish 10857]

No, what you and others said was that in January, a left back was thee priority, not a striker. That's just plain bollocks.

 

All the other stuff about last summer and Benitez being a better manager than McLaren I agree with and have already mentioned in this thread.

 

It's not bollocks at all. If we'd had a left back instead of playing; a centre back, a defensive midfielder, a different defensive midfielder, a left winger, or a right winger I don't think we'd have conceded as many as we did. We were scoring goals, and we definitely had players with more goals in them. The trouble is we rarely had controlled possession and we conceded too many goals.

 

There's zero guarantee that a striker would have changed our fortunes, but (as evidenced when we got a proper coach in) an improvement to our defence would have garnered better results on the pitch.

 

What you're doing (again) is conflating what you hope would happen with what is likely to happen. You hoped that Marveaux would be better than Jonas and because he rarely played you felt that hope had grounding. You hoped Ferguson would be better than Jonas and despite that lad's career stalling at League 1 Millwall you still think he could have done a job at Newcastle in the Premier League. You hoped that a new unknown striker would deliver more goals to a team that's already scoring, on average, a goal a game but conceding twice.

 

Tell you what, could you give me a striker that could have been brought into this Newcastle side in the January window that would have turned our fortunes around?