trooper 940 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 “Why should he go to Newcastle? He can play Champions League with us and he won’t be able to do that at Newcastle in the upcoming years.” “We do not want to sell anybody.” - See more at: http://www.themag.co.uk/2015/06/wolfsburg-ridicule-newcastle-bas-dost-valuation-compared-to-roberto-firmino-fee/#sthash.3vRcpcH1.dpuf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21915 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Indication of our appetite for information, or just our boredom? desperation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Sorry but i'm doing my best That's the concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 “I read of lump sum payments of 10 to 12 million euros for Bas (Dost) but then I refer to the example of Roberto Firmino and say they (Newcastle and other clubs) will have to get used to other amounts if they really want to buy Dost.” “We have spoken with his (Bas Dost’s) agent and it has turned out that Bas does not want to leave, quite the contrary. He feels very good in Wolfsburg.” - See more at: http://www.themag.co.uk/2015/06/wolfsburg-ridicule-newcastle-bas-dost-valuation-compared-to-roberto-firmino-fee/#sthash.dclBHjJV.dpuf “Why should he go to Newcastle? He can play Champions League with us and he won’t be able to do that at Newcastle in the upcoming years.” “We do not want to sell anybody.” - See more at: http://www.themag.co.uk/2015/06/wolfsburg-ridicule-newcastle-bas-dost-valuation-compared-to-roberto-firmino-fee/#sthash.3vRcpcH1.dpuf Bluster. Dost isn't worth anything approaching Firmino's fee. This is just trying to drive the price up, and at the end of the day, Dost isn't that good, so we'll not break the bank for him. We've got an instinctive finisher in Cisse, we need a more complete forward, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper 940 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Might have to cross him off the list now though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Might have to cross him off the list now though. Maybe, but there should be other options out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper 940 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Maybe, but there should be other options out there. I agree 100% they should be here ready to start training tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1245 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I don't believe that the money we get for players will be factored into the targets we have or the amount were willing to pay for them. Who did we buy after Carroll? After Cabaye? Debuchy? Did the fees we received change our targets? Apparently not as we didn't exactly break the bank with our fat war chest. We've been spending the Carroll money ever since! As I said earlier though he wasn't a sale we were looking to make, he was also on the last day of the january transfer window when we were comfortable in the league. As was Cabaye. We sold Debuchy then brought in Janmaat and other players last summer. We all know we don't want to do our business in January and instead prefer a planned summer window. As part of that I think we'll be including the sales that we expect to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 We've been spending the Carroll money ever since! As I said earlier though he wasn't a sale we were looking to make, he was also on the last day of the january transfer window when we were comfortable in the league. As was Cabaye. We sold Debuchy then brought in Janmaat and other players last summer. We all know we don't want to do our business in January and instead prefer a planned summer window. As part of that I think we'll be including the sales that we expect to make. Too risky though, Players could snap their leg in training and all plans you've made on their sale are shot to shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1245 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Too risky though, Players could snap their leg in training and all plans you've made on their sale are shot to shit.Of course which means you drop down to the reduced budget you have without their sale. My whole point is that we have a certain amount to spend without any additional sales. We will then try to sell players on top of that and use some of the proceeds to supliment the budget. If we don't sell or don't get as much as we think we will for those players then the budget doesn't get suplimented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Of course which means you drop down to the reduced budget you have without their sale. My whole point is that we have a certain amount to spend without any additional sales. We will then try to sell players on top of that and use some of the proceeds to supliment the budget. If we don't sell or don't get as much as we think we will for those players then the budget doesn't get suplimented. Ok, but it seems like you were saying that the figure that the club was expecting to pay out included money they were expecting to recoup from sales. So if we fail to sell Cisse for £7m and Tiote for £4m, we can't buy Austin for £15m because we've only allocated £4m towards that transfer. Way I see it is that the money we get for players has no bearing on what we're willing to pay for players. Similarly, the money we spend on players doesn't have an impact on what we demand for players. Buying Austin for £12m wouldn't mean we'd demand more, or less for Cisse. Selling Cisse for £6m wouldn't mean we'd be willing to spend more, or less on Austin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1245 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Ok, but it seems like you were saying that the figure that the club was expecting to pay out included money they were expecting to recoup from sales. So if we fail to sell Cisse for £7m and Tiote for £4m, we can't buy Austin for £15m because we've only allocated £4m towards that transfer. Way I see it is that the money we get for players has no bearing on what we're willing to pay for players. Similarly, the money we spend on players doesn't have an impact on what we demand for players. Buying Austin for £12m wouldn't mean we'd demand more, or less for Cisse. Selling Cisse for £6m wouldn't mean we'd be willing to spend more, or less on Austin. No I never meant that what we get or don't get from a sale impacts on what we're willing to pay, it only impacts on what we can pay. If we don't sell Cisse it doesn't mean our valuation of Austin (for example) changes, it only means we no longer have enough in the budget to bid for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30602 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 No I never meant that what we get or don't get from a sale impacts on what we're willing to pay, it only impacts on what we can pay. If we don't sell Cisse it doesn't mean our valuation of Austin (for example) changes, it only means we no longer have enough in the budget to bid for him. Which is a very simple point that one person has been unable to comprehend for a couple of days now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1245 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Which is a very simple point that one person has been unable to comprehend for a couple of days now.I thought there'd been a post quota that we had to fill that I'd not been told about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30602 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 No. It's the mental retardation quota we're not allowed to mention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1245 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 That gets mentioned every time esembe or mako posts doesn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 No I never meant that what we get or don't get from a sale impacts on what we're willing to pay, it only impacts on what we can pay. If we don't sell Cisse it doesn't mean our valuation of Austin (for example) changes, it only means we no longer have enough in the budget to bid for him. Ah, fair enough. I would say that we've set enough money aside to pay our valuation for all of our targets, but we won't stretch that budget much (if at all), any money we get in is a bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Which is a very simple point that one person has been unable to comprehend for a couple of days now. unwilling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1245 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Ah, fair enough. I would say that we've set enough money aside to pay our valuation for all of our targets, but we won't stretch that budget much (if at all), any money we get in is a bonus. Well we can agree to disagree on that point. I'm sure we both doubt that whatever we have put aside or get in will actually be enough to get all our targets or that what we have targed enough to turn us into a good team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30602 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) Ah, fair enough. I would say that we've set enough money aside to pay our valuation for all of our targets, but we won't stretch that budget much (if at all), any money we get in is a bonus. I think you're wrong. The club will have a rough idea of how much they expect to make on outgoings and this will be added to whatever we have in profits to use for transfers and our list of targets will be based on the overall total. The club will also have a set budget for wages next year and won't wish to stretch that too much by bringing in more players on big wages until they've got rid of some of our current big earners. Edited June 30, 2015 by ewerk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Well we can agree to disagree on that point. I'm sure we both doubt that whatever we have put aside or get in will actually be enough to get all our targets or that what we have targed enough to turn us into a good team. Oh aye, we're still fuckered. To be honest, it should be relatively easy to attract the right mix of 1st team, squad & youth to put us in a strong position to challenge for top 8 this year and give the cups a go. Then build on that next year. We realistically need 1-2 Centre backs (Matip, Abdennour) 1-2 Fullbacks (??, ??), a string puller in midfield(??), a winger (Thauvin) and 2 centre forwards (Dost, Austin). I reckon we could get that for around £65-80m. Which would be a figure that a club like us could easily afford given the package we're getting from Sky and the £34m surplus we're sitting on. What's holding us back is Charnley, imo. He's fumbled every decision thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1245 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Oh aye, we're still fuckered. To be honest, it should be relatively easy to attract the right mix of 1st team, squad & youth to put us in a strong position to challenge for top 8 this year and give the cups a go. Then build on that next year. We realistically need 1-2 Centre backs (Matip, Abdennour) 1-2 Fullbacks (??, ??), a string puller in midfield(??), a winger (Thauvin) and 2 centre forwards (Dost, Austin). I reckon we could get that for around £65-80m. Which would be a figure that a club like us could easily afford given the package we're getting from Sky and the £34m surplus we're sitting on. What's holding us back is Charnley, imo. He's fumbled every decision thus far. Make the fullback a backup for Janmaat and turn the other one into a winger and I think you're about there,it would be closer to £80m but there's no way we'll spend that and the increased wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I think you're wrong. The club will have a rough idea of how much they expect to make on outgoings and this will be added to whatever we have in profits to use for transfers and our list of targets will be based on the overall total. The club will also have a set budget for wages next year and won't wish to stretch that too much by bringing in more players on big wages until they've got rid of some of our current big earners. I don't think you can make any kind of reliable prediction on players who haven't caught the eye. How can you rely on anyone coming up with an offer that's within the acceptable envelope of valuation? The market is too unpredictable, surely? If we're expecting money for Cisse and no one comes in because of the domino effect of the transfer market, are our transfer plans shelved entirely? That's sounds too ridiculous even for our band of shitehawks. The wage thing is reasonable, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Make the fullback a backup for Janmaat and turn the other one into a winger and I think you're about there,it would be closer to £80m but there's no way we'll spend that and the increased wages. Probably not, which makes it all more the frustrating, because in this market £80m to an English Premier League club is buttons, especially to one who already has £34m in their sky rocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30602 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I don't think you can make any kind of reliable prediction on players who haven't caught the eye. How can you rely on anyone coming up with an offer that's within the acceptable envelope of valuation? The market is too unpredictable, surely? If we're expecting money for Cisse and no one comes in because of the domino effect of the transfer market, are our transfer plans shelved entirely? That's sounds too ridiculous even for our band of shitehawks. The wage thing is reasonable, That's why I think that the club may be playing it safe by trying to offload players before trying to bring in some of their targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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