sammynb 3342 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 (edited) Really? The makems have arguably found worse in their last two permanent appointments. Is Steve Bruce any better? Is Nigel Pearson? Is Neil Warnock? All these might be better than Carver, who I do think was literally the worst realistic choice they could have gone for, but that doesn't make them better than a poor Pardew. I, like Gloomy, just look at our recent managerial appointments and were any of them any better than Pardew? Fish has also said that Pardew did exactly what Ashley wanted. If that's so then why would Ashley even bother looking for someone better? Pardew wasn't well paid compared to other managers so if he could get someone cheap to do exactly what he wants why pay any more? DK, agree with you completely about the fat man will only employ another stooge, Carver is case in point but I don't think Bruce or Pearson would have been any worse than Pardew. I don't think they would be great but no worse. On Poyet, I don't know what happened there as he looked a decent manager in his time at Brighton maybe the rumours that there are bigger problems at the stadium of shite have as much to do with their current position as their choice of manager. Edited April 30, 2015 by sammynb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1217 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 DK, agree with you completely about the fat man will only employ another stooge, Carver is case in point but I don't think Bruce or Pearson would have been any worse than Pardew. I don't think they would be great but no worse. On Poyet, I don't know what happened there as he looked a decent manager in his time at Brighton maybe the rumours that there are bigger problems at the stadium of shite have as much to do with their current position as their choice of manager. TBF I wouldn't say for certain that any of the managers I mentioned would be worse than Pardew but I am sure they're no better. They are all around the level I would expect him to go for if they would be cheap enough. If they're under contract that's more than likely a non starter there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3791 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Are there managers out there who are quite good but have no ambition to win anything? Cos they would fit right in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21768 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 So exactly the environment that Garde and Tuchel are used to then? no cunt is used to working for ashley man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21768 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 The player recruitment issue isn't likely to be a problem to many European coaches and unlikely to be a massive distraction to managers wanting to come over and prove themselves in the PL. And what clubs don't sell their best players when big money offers come in for them? Aside from the top 5 clubs in the league everyone is vulnerable to losing their players to bigger sides. Our problem is that the money is rarely reinvested in the same window. two points: 1) I doubt any continental coach would be willing to work for ashley once they discuss job description/salary 2) Ashley doesn't have the nous to appoint one anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10674 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Thanks for clearing that up. Can I ask why you have any confidence whatsoever that we'll get better than Pardew? Honestly? Well I think Pardew was given the job because he knew (or was a mate of a mate) of Ashley, ditto Kinnear. I think that That was a marriage of convenience and I don't believe that the next coach will be an unqualified mess. Also I need to be clear, Pardew delivered what Ashley wanted, so in that regard the next coach will be the same as Pardew. Newcastle won't suddenly be assaulting the Europa League spots, or sacrificing league positions to have a tilt at the cups. What I'm expecting is a coach that delivers better football, doesn't lose the dressing room and doesn't head-butt opposition players either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10674 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 (edited) two points: 1) I doubt any continental coach would be willing to work for ashley once they discuss job description/salary 2) Ashley doesn't have the nous to appoint one anyway. Except Premier league managers generally are paid more than their continental colleagues? So lets be clear, what exactly do you expect will realistically happen? It appears that you believe we'll get a Carver-clone as boss, sign nobody, sell everyone decent and get relegated. Edited April 30, 2015 by The Fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1217 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Honestly? Well I think Pardew was given the job because he knew (or was a mate of a mate) of Ashley, ditto Kinnear. I think that That was a marriage of convenience and I don't believe that the next coach will be an unqualified mess. Also I need to be clear, Pardew delivered what Ashley wanted, so in that regard the next coach will be the same as Pardew. Newcastle won't suddenly be assaulting the Europa League spots, or sacrificing league positions to have a tilt at the cups. What I'm expecting is a coach that delivers better football, doesn't lose the dressing room and doesn't head-butt opposition players either. I think you're just hoping without any real justification there. Yes you can expect it's not another muppet who'll headbutt a player but beyond that it's finger in the air stuff. There's nothing other than luck that would be a reason for achieving the other things you say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper 940 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Are there managers out there who are quite good but have no ambition to win anything? Cos they would fit right in here. That's the key question Mr Gloves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneColdStephenIreland 74 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I think we'll get someone who'll be grateful towards Ashley for a job, that's what Ashley employs. Kinnear, Hughton, Pardew, Carver. Managers who are nowhere near in contention for premier league jobs so will keep in line to what Ashley wants. He never expected Hughton would have became such a fan favourite and probably stepped out from Ashleys obese as fuck shadow and that's why he got sacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper 940 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 "I think we'll get someone who'll be grateful towards Ashley for the job" John William Carver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21768 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Except Premier league managers generally are paid more than their continental colleagues? So lets be clear, what exactly do you expect will realistically happen? It appears that you believe we'll get a Carver-clone as boss, sign nobody, sell everyone decent and get relegated. Do I honesty have to tell you again? I told you like three posts ago - it'll be either another has been like Pardew with a reputation to rebuild or a rookie with no reputation like Hughton. In other words, a typical Ashley appointment. Again, I suspect Ashley was hoping carver would turn out to be another Hughton. And to repeat myself again, I hope you're right. But hope is exactly what you're basing your opinion on. My view of what to expect is based on the realty to date of a club run by Ashley, which I'm afraid to say is rather hope-less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10674 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Do I honesty have to tell you again? I told you like three posts ago - it'll be either another has been like Pardew with a reputation to rebuild or a rookie with no reputation like Hughton. In other words, a typical Ashley appointment. Again, I suspect Ashley was hoping carver would turn out to be another Hughton. And to repeat myself again, I hope you're right. But hope is exactly what you're basing your opinion on. My view of what to expect is based on the realty to date of a club run by Ashley, which I'm afraid to say is rather hope-less. Is it not possible (and entirely reasonable) to expect a coach with a reputation to rebuild or a younger coach with less reputation that is also good? This is my issue, I can't see why you're dismissing Garde, Tuchel (as you did at the time) and repeat that no-one good would ever work for Ashley when it seems to me there's a massive pool of coaches that fit those criteria (looking to rebuild reputation or build from fresh) who are capable and certainly an improvement on Pardew and Carver. It seems like the minute the Chronicle (or whoever) link a European coach who few had heard about before then, you dismiss them. Is it because the minute they're linked, they must be good, therefore they can't be interested? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21768 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Probably one of the key points in the job description that will deter any potential applicant of any quality will be the PR role. Any manager with any credibilty is unlikely to want to piss their reputation away by acting as a mouthpiece/scapegoat for the club the next time they decide to deliberately antagonise the lacks. Pardew took to that part of the job with relish, on his knees with buttocks splayed. Will any future candidate be so willing? Lord Ashley's search for his next apprentice continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10674 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Probably one of the key points in the job description that will deter any potential applicant of any quality will be the PR role. Any manager with any credibilty is unlikely to want to piss their reputation away by acting as a mouthpiece/scapegoat for the club the next time they decide to deliberately antagonise the lacks. Pardew took to that part of the job with relish, on his knees with buttocks splayed. Will any future candidate be so willing? Lord Ashley's search for his next apprentice continues. Wasn't one of the conclusions people took from specifying the role would be a Head Coach role, that they'd be absolved of acting as the voice of the regime? I swear Charnley addressed this very issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper 940 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Can i throw a name in here lads who i thought would have been an ideal candidate for Ashley one Mr Peter Beardsley. Shirley an ideal candidate he's worked under Ashley allegedly a bit of a yes man unlikely to make a fuss what do you think ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10674 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Can i throw a name in here lads who i thought would have been an ideal candidate for Ashley one Mr Peter Beardsley. Shirley an ideal candidate he's worked under Ashley allegedly a bit of a yes man unlikely to make a fuss what do you think ? Check his record with the reserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper 940 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Check his record with the reserves. As i said an ideal candidate joking a side i honestly thought Ashley would have let him have a crack at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10674 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 As i said an ideal candidate joking a side i honestly thought Ashley would have let him have a crack at it. No chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21768 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 (edited) Is it not possible (and entirely reasonable) to expect a coach with a reputation to rebuild or a younger coach with less reputation that is also good? This is my issue, I can't see why you're dismissing Garde, Tuchel (as you did at the time) and repeat that no-one good would ever work for Ashley when it seems to me there's a massive pool of coaches that fit those criteria (looking to rebuild reputation or build from fresh) who are capable and certainly an improvement on Pardew and Carver. It seems like the minute the Chronicle (or whoever) link a European coach who few had heard about before then, you dismiss them. Is it because the minute they're linked, they must be good, therefore they can't be interested? ok, let's put it another way. ashley has a hideous record when it comes to appointing managers. i don't expect him to buck that trend. there might be a promising young foreign coach out there who is prepared to look past the limitations of working for the fat cunt. it's a big might but i suppose it isn't beyond the realm of possibility if we're putting our most optimistic hats on. but even in that unlikely scenario, i don't expect ashley to offer that coach the job. why? i hear you cry. well.... because this is the cunt that appointed pardew, joe kinnear (twice) and dennis fucking wise for fuckity fuck's sake. you must know at the bottom of your heart that it's almost certainly going to be another shit heap manager that would struggle to get a job anywhere else. the moment he appoints a highly-rated, progressive young foreign coach, i'll be the first person to admit i was wrong, and look forward to a brighter future. as things stand, i don't see why you would possibly expect that type of appointment, when you look at our managers since keegan: kinnear shearer hughton pardew carver ... it's not exactly a list to inspire confidence, is it? Edited April 30, 2015 by Dr Gloom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10674 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 So your argument rests on the expectation that he will 100% repeat his previous mistakes? I mean Christ, the only one out of those that I would call a genuine appointment is Pardew, the others were either born of panic or confidence that the accumulated points would be enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1217 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 So your argument rests on the expectation that he will 100% repeat his previous mistakes? I mean Christ, the only one out of those that I would call a genuine appointment is Pardew, the others were either born of panic or confidence that the accumulated points would be enough. Tell me you did just use the fact that his other appointments have been out of panic as a reason to expect more from his next appointment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44179 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 On the issue of who will get the manager job in the summer, The Fish is a bigger history denying Ashley lickspittle than Moncur. That is just a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howay 12496 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Tell me you did just use the fact that his other appointments have been out of panic as a reason to expect more from his next appointment! I reckon McClaren is plan A through Z, if Derby get promoted Ashley and co will spend all summer unsuccessfully courting him before eventually utterly panicking 2 weeks before the season starts. We best hope Derby don't come up and McClaren decides to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10674 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Tell me you did just use the fact that his other appointments have been out of panic as a reason to expect more from his next appointment! ... No I'm saying that his previous appointment (Pardew) is the least I'm expecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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