The OFFICIAL Transfer Rumours Thread

[David Kelly 1217]

No, my point is that the players that Carr has got through the filter, have have been more hit than miss and that those players who have been hit and very quickly been moved on. I don't think it's unreasonable to say that with a coach of, say, Koeman's ability (a manager that would very much be on our radar if we were run differently) could have taken a squad that I detailed above to much better than things than Stoke.

 

My point is that the hits have been hits despite Pardew, Carver, Stone and Woodman. An opinion that isn't unreasonable, unpopular or unbiased.

 

Especially given the opinions of Pardew, Carver, Stone and Woodman in terms of coaching abilityare poor and the evidence to support those opinions are all pretty damning.

Ok sorry, I thought we'd already come to an agreement that Carr is decent and we were on to comparing us to Stoke now.

 

Of course I agree that with the restrictions we have, Carr is doing well and we would seriously struggle to do better when you have Ashley, Pardew and Carver (I don't really see the need to include Woodman. I don't have any great liking for him but given his role is goalkeeping coach I don't see him doing that much damage either) fucking any good things does up.

[Gemmill 44179]

How have you two got the energy to keep this discussion going?

[Howay 12496]

Whatever happens with the end of the season I've little doubt that Ashley will do the absolute bare minimum in the summer to keep us up/get us promoted. It'll be another fantastic season where the team try and play football.

I'd love for us to get McClaren tbh as he's a proper coach which will mean we have an actual coach for the first time in years, he can get teams playing canny football as seen with his Boro, Twente and Derby sides (didn't see his Wolfsburg team and International footy is different). To troopers doubt of why he would take a job like this after building his reputation up a bit, I still think he has a way to go in this country as a lot of people will stuff huff and moan if Newcastle appoint him due to his poor England performance. You also only have to look at Pardew to see what a reputation changer a few seasons in the Prem can be, he went from the football graveyard and a sacking from a League one team to being seen as a Premier League level manager again. A few seasons keeping us in the Prem, maybe one good run to nick a European spot (probably wouldn't even need this) and McClaren will be in high demand and linked to a good amount of Premier League jobs again.

[Dr Gloom 21768]

No you're right not a single qualified coach would even say the name "Newcastle" without turning three times and spitting for fear of being afflicted by the cursed club.

 

I doubt many good coaches will want to work for Ashley. There's no evidence as far as I can see to suggest that'll change. Or that he's capable of spotting one.

 

Until now Ashley has failed to appoint a good manager with an impressive reputation other than Keegan. And even then it was in his early days as an owner and few knew how clueless he would turn out to be at running the club.

 

I doubt our impressive fan base and history is going to change that. No quality manager will look past the complete lack of control over player recruitment and the board with zero ambition. I can't see the new manager being anything other than another has-been or rookie.

[Dr Gloom 21768]

How have you two got the energy to keep this discussion going?

How have you got the energy to read it?

 

I'm starting to lose the will to keep repeating the obvious to Fish.

 

I have to say though that I would LOVE it, LOVE it if he's right and Ashley goes against his recent form.

[trooper 940]

Just to play devils advocate Derby could still get promotion and all bets will be off regarding McLaren i suppose .

[Howmanheyman 32650]

How have you two got the energy to keep this discussion going?

 

+1

[Gemmill 44179]

How have you got the energy to read it?

 

I'm starting to lose the will to keep repeating the obvious to Fish.

 

I have to say though that I would LOVE it, LOVE it if he's right and Ashley goes against his recent form.

I've read none of it! I just keep scrolling through it all, blown away by the volume of text on show.

[David Kelly 1217]

My sheer will to keep this place going. And the enjoyment of arguing with Fish. But mainly the complete boredom of being an accountant!

[The Fish 10674]

I doubt many good coaches will want to work for Ashley. There's no evidence as far as I can see to suggest that'll change. Or that he's capable of spotting one.

 

Until now Ashley has failed to appoint a good manager with an impressive reputation other than Keegan. And even then it was in his early days as an owner and few knew how clueless he would turn out to be at running the club.

 

I doubt our impressive fan base and history is going to change that. No quality manager will look past the complete lack of control over player recruitment and the board with zero ambition. I can't see the new manager being anything other than another has-been or rookie.

 

Yet again you're missing the obvious Gloomy. We might want Klopp to lead a revolution, but Ashley wants Premier League safety on a budget. However, that restriction doesn't mean that we'll employ David Hockaday and doesn't preclude us employing a good coach. You say Ashley hasn't employed a top coach bar Keegan, but frankly You're forgetting that Pardew did exactly what Ashley wanted. So in his eyes he has employed a good coach. Also, who gives a fuck about reputation if he can do the job? Wenger hardly came to England with a sparkling reputation, but Mancini did.

 

There are plenty of quality managers who work under similar restrictions and to dismiss such a range of coaches because you've got your pet lip out is childish.

 

But you crack on with your predictions of doom and shit if it gets you through the day.

[The Fish 10674]

My sheer will to keep this place going. And the enjoyment of arguing with Fish. But mainly the complete boredom of being an accountant!

Pretty much the same here.

[Ayatollah Hermione 13762]

 

Yet again you're missing the obvious Gloomy. We might want Klopp to lead a revolution, but Ashley wants Premier League safety on a budget. However, that restriction doesn't mean that we'll employ David Hockaday and doesn't preclude us employing a good coach. You say Ashley hasn't employed a top coach bar Keegan, but frankly You're forgetting that Pardew did exactly what Ashley wanted. So in his eyes he has employed a good coach. Also, who gives a fuck about reputation if he can do the job? Wenger hardly came to England with a sparkling reputation, but Mancini did.

 

There are plenty of quality managers who work under similar restrictions and to dismiss such a range of coaches because you've got your pet lip out is childish.

 

But you crack on with your predictions of doom and shit if it gets you through the day.

 

 

[The Fish 10674]

 

 

[Dr Gloom 21768]

 

Yet again you're missing the obvious Gloomy. We might want Klopp to lead a revolution, but Ashley wants Premier League safety on a budget. However, that restriction doesn't mean that we'll employ David Hockaday and doesn't preclude us employing a good coach. You say Ashley hasn't employed a top coach bar Keegan, but frankly You're forgetting that Pardew did exactly what Ashley wanted. So in his eyes he has employed a good coach. Also, who gives a fuck about reputation if he can do the job? Wenger hardly came to England with a sparkling reputation, but Mancini did.

 

There are plenty of quality managers who work under similar restrictions and to dismiss such a range of coaches because you've got your pet lip out is childish.

 

But you crack on with your predictions of doom and shit if it gets you through the day.

 

pardew isn't a good manager. i vehemently disagree that there are a load of good managers ready to work for ashley under the current restrictions. we'll see who is right in the summer. i honestly hope it's you but ashley has done fuck all until now to suggest you're right to have any confidence in his decision-making.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Dr Gloom

[The Fish 10674]

 

pardew isn't a good manager. i vehemently disagree that there are a load of good managers ready to work for ashley under the current restrictions. we'll see who is right in the summer. i honestly hope it's you but ashley has done fuck all until now to suggest you're right to have any confidence in his decision-making.

... I know.

 

What I typed out was that in Ashley's eyes, he did get a good coach, because he got from that coach what he wanted...

 

I think the issue is what you think is loads and what you think is good.

 

Will Klopp come? No, of course not, but then he'd be unlikely to have come under Shepherd & Hall either.

Is Garde a good manager? Maybe and he probably would have come if we'd courted him properly.

Tuchel ditto.

 

Is McClaren a good coach? Kind of, yeah, and he'd definitely come if pursued properly.

[Dr Gloom 21768]

fish, i doubt any of the above will come and work for ashley, which i think is where you and i differ.

 

i also doubt ashley is astute enough to appoint one of the above.

 

i suspect he will go for another pardew-type appointment. someone no one wants in other words, who he can control and who he hopes will secure his aim of survival on the cheap and with minimum of fuss because they'll just be happy to be managing a premiership club.

 

i also suspect he was hoping he got lucky with carver and that he'd do a hughton, which would have saved him from making a decision and given him a cheap manager, and a ready built yes man, having learned form the best best, working alongside pardew.

 

like i keep saying though, i hope you're right. i just don't see any evidence at all to suggest you will be. just look back at his history of appointing managers before you accuse me of having a pet lip on, ok? you're clearly the one with your head in the clouds.

[The Fish 10674]

fish, i doubt any of the above will come and work for ashley, which i think is where you and i differ.

 

i also doubt ashley is astute enough to appoint one of the above.

 

i suspect he will go for another pardew-type appointment. someone no one wants in other words, who he can control and who he hopes will secure his aim of survival on the cheap and with minimum of fuss because they'll just be happy to be managing a premiership club.

 

i also suspect he was hoping he got lucky with carver and that he'd do a hughton, which would have saved him from making a decision and given him a cheap manager, and a ready built yes man, having learned form the best best, working alongside pardew.

 

like i keep saying though, i hope you're right. i just don't see any evidence at all to suggest you will be. just look back at his history of appointing managers before you accuse me of having a pet lip on, ok? you're clearly the one with your head in the clouds.

 

That's madness to me. We're a massive club in the most watched league on the planet, coming up against some of the most famous clubs in the world, we've a huge stadia that fills out most home games. You're mad if you think ambitious coaches wouldn't fancy it.

[Dr Gloom 21768]

 

That's madness to me. We're a massive club in the most watched league on the planet, coming up against some of the most famous clubs in the world, we've a huge stadia that fills out most home games. You're mad if you think ambitious coaches wouldn't fancy it.

 

the type of ambitious coach you allude to is unlikely to want work in an environment where all they don't get to make decisions regarding player recruitment and where all their best players are sold the moment they start performing well.

 

i think you're the one that's mad to expect otherwise, unless by ambitious you mean another pardew or hughton type appointment - they both clearly had ambition. ashley may get lucky again with a hughton-esque appointment, who proves capable and likeable, but i doubt the job will go to anyone capable of exciting the fanbase, which is what you seem to think.

[ewerk 30175]

 

the type of ambitious coach you allude to is unlikely to want work in an environment where all they don't get to make decisions regarding player recruitment and where all their best players are sold the moment they start performing well.

 

 

The player recruitment issue isn't likely to be a problem to many European coaches and unlikely to be a massive distraction to managers wanting to come over and prove themselves in the PL.

 

And what clubs don't sell their best players when big money offers come in for them? Aside from the top 5 clubs in the league everyone is vulnerable to losing their players to bigger sides. Our problem is that the money is rarely reinvested in the same window.

[The Fish 10674]

 

the type of ambitious coach you allude to is unlikely to want work in an environment where all they don't get to make decisions regarding player recruitment and where all their best players are sold the moment they start performing well.

 

i think you're the one that's mad to expect otherwise, unless by ambitious you mean another pardew or hughton type appointment - they both clearly had ambition. ashley may get lucky again with a hughton-esque appointment, who proves capable and likeable, but i doubt the job will go to anyone capable of exciting the fanbase, which is what you seem to think.

 

So exactly the environment that Garde and Tuchel are used to then?

[David Kelly 1217]

The player recruitment issue isn't likely to be a problem to many European coaches and unlikely to be a massive distraction to managers wanting to come over and prove themselves in the PL.

 

And what clubs don't sell their best players when big money offers come in for them? Aside from the top 5 clubs in the league everyone is vulnerable to losing their players to bigger sides. Our problem is that the money is rarely reinvested in the same window.

I agree with this. I don't think we'll be seen as bad to European managers who are used to working in a very similar environment. Some of them are also used to working for fuckwit owners.

 

Where I definitely agree with Gloomy is that Ashley's lack of knowlege of and desire to appoint any of these managers makes it irrelevant whether they would come or not.

 

I'm getting a bit confused as to what Fish actually thinks will happen now. On the one hand you seem to have some optimism that there will be an improvement and on the other it sounds like you're suggesting we're heading for another Pardew. Is your optimism only that we'll have better than Carver?

[The Fish 10674]

I agree with this. I don't think we'll be seen as bad to European managers who are used to working in a very similar environment. Some of them are also used to working for fuckwit owners.

 

Where I definitely agree with Gloomy is that Ashley's lack of knowlege of and desire to appoint any of these managers makes it irrelevant whether they would come or not.

 

I'm getting a bit confused as to what Fish actually thinks will happen now. On the one hand you seem to have some optimism that there will be an improvement and on the other it sounds like you're suggesting we're heading for another Pardew. Is your optimism only that we'll have better than Carver?

 

 

I think we'll employ a Head Coach that will be an improvement on Pardew and certainly Carver. However, I'm confident that this coach won't be in the same league as, say, Klopp. I'd expect a Pocchetino (relatively unknown outside of their own league, but looking to prove themselves on a bigger scene).

 

I expect them to be foreign simply because most English coaches expect to be in charge of transfers and would also come at a premium.

 

I expect them to be good (Premier League quality), and I expect them to play better football than we've endured under Pardew & Carver because it couldn't get much worse and still deliver Premier League survival.

[David Kelly 1217]

I think we'll employ a Head Coach that will be an improvement on Pardew and certainly Carver. However, I'm confident that this coach won't be in the same league as, say, Klopp. I'd expect a Pocchetino (relatively unknown outside of their own league, but looking to prove themselves on a bigger scene).

 

I expect them to be foreign simply because most English coaches expect to be in charge of transfers and would also come at a premium.

 

I expect them to be good (Premier League quality), and I expect them to play better football than we've endured under Pardew & Carver because it couldn't get much worse and still deliver Premier League survival.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Can I ask why you have any confidence whatsoever that we'll get better than Pardew?

[sammynb 3342]

Thanks for clearing that up.

Can I ask why you have any confidence whatsoever that we'll get better than Pardew?

 

Not siding with fish but honestly, Carver is possibly the only worse than Pardew option the club could have gone with.

[David Kelly 1217]

Not siding with fish but honestly, Carver is possibly the only worse than Pardew option the club could have gone with.

Really? The makems have arguably found worse in their last two permanent appointments. Is Steve Bruce any better? Is Nigel Pearson? Is Neil Warnock? All these might be better than Carver, who I do think was literally the worst realistic choice they could have gone for, but that doesn't make them better than a poor Pardew.

I, like Gloomy, just look at our recent managerial appointments and were any of them any better than Pardew? Fish has also said that Pardew did exactly what Ashley wanted. If that's so then why would Ashley even bother looking for someone better? Pardew wasn't well paid compared to other managers so if he could get someone cheap to do exactly what he wants why pay any more?