The OFFICIAL Transfer Rumours Thread

[Dr Gloom 22149]

 

How is it not?

 

how is it?

 

i'd say the squad needs significant money spending on it to make sure we're not involved in another relegation battle. I don't expect ashley to release the required funds, despite there being a fuckload sat in the bank. i'd be surprised if there's a significant net spend tbh

[Dr Gloom 22149]

 

Sorry I meant personnel-wise. (Not asking for the names of any new signings obviously)

 

i have no idea. we'll see in the summer. just don't expecting to be pleasantly surprised. that january window you and andrew mentioned when we were in the shit was one of the few when ashley spend the money needed. why expect something to happen that he rarely delivers?

[Andrew 4857]

 

how is it?

 

i'd say the squad needs significant money spending on it to make sure we're not involved in another relegation battle. I don't expect ashley to release the required funds, despite there being a fuckload sat in the bank. i'd be surprised if there's a significant net spend tbh

 

 

.

 

Exactly, so don't expect the spending the squad needs this summer. He'll be hoping to wing it on the minimum investment again then review in January. Mint.

 

That bottom post still results in us staying up, or it did last time. That's all the squad needs for its objectives.

 

What we want and what it needs are totally different things.

[The Fish 10965]

 

i have no idea. we'll see in the summer. just don't expecting to be pleasantly surprised. that january window you and andrew mentioned when we were in the shit was one of the few when ashley spend the money needed. why expect something to happen that he rarely delivers?

I think there's confusion here.

 

I don't think Andrew or I are suggesting Ashley is going to flood the team with strength and depth. Simply that there'll be a raft of new signings.

 

Way I see it there's;

3 or 4 players needed for this squad

3 or 4 players leaving minimum.

 

So there's a need for at least 6-8 new players incoming, on top of Darlow and Lascelles.

 

I'm not saying we'll see 15 new faces in the first team squad, but we will see big change.

[Dr Gloom 22149]

 

 

 

That bottom post still results in us staying up, or it did last time. That's all the squad needs for its objectives.

 

What we want and what it needs are totally different things.

 

wrong.

 

as a fan, i want significant investment in the squad - more than ashley is ever going to spend.

 

the squad itself needs significant investment to survive - this is ashley's goal. will he deliver the required funds? possibly. but possibly not given his record. will it backfire and could we go down? given the way we've played the last 18 months, you'd be unwise to rule it out. if his gamble backfires, arguing over semantics will look a bit silly.

[The Fish 10965]

 

wrong.

 

as a fan, i want significant investment in the squad - more than ashley is ever going to spend.

 

the squad itself needs significant investment to survive - this is ashley's goal. will he deliver the required funds? possibly. but possibly not given his record. will it backfire and could we go down? given the way we've played the last 18 months, you'd be unwise to rule it out. if his gamble backfires, arguing over semantics will look a bit silly.

 

This post is confusing.

 

You say the squad needs investment to survive and that is Ashley sole ambition.

 

Then the very next sentence says he might not deliver that.

 

 

How can we possibly go into the next season without change if the sole ambition of Ashley is so obviously unattainable with the current squad? He's proven he will spend when Premier League status is threatened and he also spent £37m last summer when our club finished similarly poorly.

 

No one is saying that Newcastle are off to sign Falcao, but we will have to sign players through necessity... your argument seems to be that we won't? That doesn't scan with your admission that Ashley's sole ambition is survival.

[Dr Gloom 22149]

 

This post is confusing.

 

You say the squad needs investment to survive and that is Ashley sole ambition.

 

Then the very next sentence says he might not deliver that.

 

 

How can we possibly go into the next season without change if the sole ambition of Ashley is so obviously unattainable with the current squad? He's proven he will spend when Premier League status is threatened and he also spent £37m last summer when our club finished similarly poorly.

 

No one is saying that Newcastle are off to sign Falcao, but we will have to sign players through necessity... your argument seems to be that we won't? That doesn't scan with your admission that Ashley's sole ambition is survival.

 

it's not that confusing fish, i'll try to make it simple for you.

 

he will spend some money. it won't be as much as i want as a supporter - i think you got that part.

 

it will be the minimum he thinks he might be able to get away with. it might be enough to keep us up. it might not. but it will almost certainly be another high risk strategy.

 

to answer andrew's point, we won't know if it's what the squad needs till the end of the season and neither will ashley as he's a gambler. his transfer strategy is basically to punt on the club's future.

 

so nothing new. why expect anything better?

[David Kelly 1260]

How can we possibly go into the next season without change if the sole ambition of Ashley is so obviously unattainable with the current squad?

Survival is also clearly unattainable with Carver running the team but I'd say that it's looking far from likely that he'll be replaced with someone competent. I don't see how anyone can be confident that Ashley will do anything positive for the team no matter how limited the ambition might be.

[The Fish 10965]

 

it's not that confusing fish, i'll try to make it simple for you.

 

he will spend some money. it won't be as much as i want as a supporter - i think you got that part.

 

it will be the minimum he thinks he might be able to get away with. it might be enough to keep us up. it might not. but it will almost certainly be another high risk strategy.

 

to answer andrew's point, we won't know if it's what the squad needs till the end of the season and neither will ashley as he's a gambler. his transfer strategy is basically to punt on the club's future.

 

so nothing new. why expect anything better?

 

Ok, I'll make it simple in response.

 

Who the fuck is?

 

Andrew and I are saying we'll reinvest in the squad and have, repeatedly, said it won't be a host of superstars. It'll be enough to keep us up because that's all Ashley wants.

 

You seem to be saying the same thing but accusing us of having high expectations??

[David Kelly 1260]

I think there's confusion here.

 

I don't think Andrew or I are suggesting Ashley is going to flood the team with strength and depth. Simply that there'll be a raft of new signings.

 

Way I see it there's;

3 or 4 players needed for this squad

3 or 4 players leaving minimum.

 

So there's a need for at least 6-8 new players incoming, on top of Darlow and Lascelles.

 

I'm not saying we'll see 15 new faces in the first team squad, but we will see big change.

You only think we need 3 or 4 players to be added to the current squad if no one goes?

[The Fish 10965]

Survival is also clearly unattainable with Carver running the team but I'd say that it's looking far from likely that he'll be replaced with someone competent. I don't see how anyone can be confident that Ashley will do anything positive for the team no matter how limited the ambition might be.

Why is it looking that way? Because of the Chronicle?

 

Is filling out the squad with necessary signings "positive"?

 

The jist of Gloomy's predictions is that we'll not reinvest, but when it comes down to it, even he admits we'll sign new players. So I'm struggling to see how he's categorising my confidence in a 6-8 new players as anything less than realistic?

 

All I've been saying is that we'll sign a bunch of players because we have to.

[The Fish 10965]

You only think we need 3 or 4 players to be added to the current squad if no one goes?

To stay up? yeah.

 

Centre half, Striker and a couple of midfielders. If nobody leaves we'd have

 

Krul Elliott Darlow Woodman

Janmaat R.Taylor

Colo Lascelles Willo S.Taylor

Haidara Dummett

Anita Colback Tiote Abeid

Sissoko Cabella

Gouffran Marveaux Obertan Aarons Ameobi

Armstrong Cisse de Jong Perez Riviere

 

That squad plus any young players that've been on the fringe like Roberts etc. and :

a better centre back than Williamson and Taylor

a couple of string pullers or wide midfielders depending on how we play

A striker in the same mould as Ba; big, strong, target man again, depending on how we're set up to play.

 

so yeah, if no one leaves, we need 3-4 players to stay up.

Edited April 23, 2015 by The Fish

[David Kelly 1260]

Why is it looking that way? Because of the Chronicle?

 

Is filling out the squad with necessary signings "positive"?

 

The jist of Gloomy's predictions is that we'll not reinvest, but when it comes down to it, even he admits we'll sign new players. So I'm struggling to see how he's categorising my confidence in a 6-8 new players as anything less than realistic?

 

All I've been saying is that we'll sign a bunch of players because we have to.

Lots of rumors Carver has been given the job already so not just the Chronicle shite. I'm not saying I'm convinced he will still be in charge, this could all be misinformation so that when someone bang average is appointed we're all so releived it's anyone better than Carver that we don't kick up a fuss. But I can't honestly say that I'm confident that an actual manager (even under the title of head coach) will be appointed.

 

I know you're not claiming that we'll be signing a load of players who will catapult us up the league into a champions leaue spot (everyone knows that won't happen), but again I'm not convinced he will do what is required to meet the modest expectations you have. He might bring a few reasonable players in and replace a few that leaves but it seems just as likely to me that he'll gamble on doing it at such a low cost level that we end up in just a poor a position as we are now.

[Howmanheyman 33844]

 

We've not had a balanced squad in years & we've survived. It's a risk he's felt comfortable taking each season and it was only when we looked doomed (2 pts off rock bottom 12/01/13) that he panicked and brought forward the purchases of Mbiwa, Debuchy, Haidara, Sissoko and Gouffran.

'To be assured of survival'. Aye we survived which makes him more at ease with the risk. I fucking love the club's take on the 'Bringing forward' of the signings of Debuchy et al, we were overdue these signings when they finally came in, they should've been bought that previous summer but in the club spin we got them in early instead of waiting. Fanks, Mike.

[The Fish 10965]

Lots of rumors Carver has been given the job already so not just the Chronicle shite. I'm not saying I'm convinced he will still be in charge, this could all be misinformation so that when someone bang average is appointed we're all so releived it's anyone better than Carver that we don't kick up a fuss. But I can't honestly say that I'm confident that an actual manager (even under the title of head coach) will be appointed.

 

I know you're not claiming that we'll be signing a load of players who will catapult us up the league into a champions leaue spot (everyone knows that won't happen), but again I'm not convinced he will do what is required to meet the modest expectations you have. He might bring a few reasonable players in and replace a few that leaves but it seems just as likely to me that he'll gamble on doing it at such a low cost level that we end up in just a poor a position as we are now.

 

 

We might well do, but this season is also partly down to player injury.

 

we've been without Colo, de Jong, Cisse, Santon, Janmaat, Tiote, Dummett, Taylor, Krul & Elliott.

 

My point being that next season it's unlikely we'll suffer the loss of our lynchpin new signing (de Jong) our 1st & 2nd choice 'keepers, our fullbacks. Etc.

 

Meh.

[The Fish 10965]

'To be assured of survival'. Aye we survived which makes him more at ease with the risk. I fucking love the club's take on the 'Bringing forward' of the signings of Debuchy et al, we were overdue these signings when they finally came in, they should've been bought that previous summer but in the club spin we got them in early instead of waiting. Fanks, Mike.

 

To be clear, you don't think I'm defending that behaviour, do you?

[David Kelly 1260]

To stay up? yeah.

 

Centre half, Striker and a couple of midfielders. If nobody leaves we'd have

 

Krul Elliott Darlow Woodman - I agree this seems fine

Janmaat R.Taylor - I don't think Ryan Taylor is even a suitable backup.

Colo Lascelles Willo S.Taylor - Honestly now I'm not sure any of these are good enough. Quite possibly Taylor is the best now and he's made of straw.

Haidara Dummett - Probably just about enough.

Anita Colback Tiote Abeid - Colback is average and hes the best one there.

Sissoko Cabella - Both can be good players in a good team. We aren't so they're ineffective most of the time.

Gouffran Marveaux Obertan Aarons Ameobi - Aarons (again made of straw or possibly something weaker) is the only one possibly good enough. I wouldn't play the rest of them for the reserves.

Armstrong Cisse de Jong Perez Riviere - Cisse (who seems likely to have a recurring injury problem) is the only one good enough.

 

That squad plus any young players that've been on the fringe like Roberts etc. and :

a better centre back than Williamson and Taylor

a couple of string pullers or wide midfielders depending on how we play

A striker in the same mould as Ba; big, strong, target man again, depending on how we're set up to play.

 

so yeah, if no one leaves, we need 3-4 players to stay up.

For me we need two starting centrebacks,a rightback, a central midfielder, two wingers and two strikers plus some other filler just to be safe.

[The Fish 10965]

For me we need two starting centrebacks,a rightback, a central midfielder, two wingers and two strikers plus some other filler just to be safe.

 

That's reasonable, but pessimistic.

 

Put it this way, we've been shit throughout the season, had an injury ravaged squad and employed John fucking Carver as head coach for the final 12 games and we're still probably going to survive ahead of teams who're certainly playing better football than us.

[David Kelly 1260]

We might well do, but this season is also partly down to player injury.

 

we've been without Colo, de Jong, Cisse, Santon, Janmaat, Tiote, Dummett, Taylor, Krul & Elliott.

 

My point being that next season it's unlikely we'll suffer the loss of our lynchpin new signing (de Jong) our 1st & 2nd choice 'keepers, our fullbacks. Etc.

 

Meh.

Again your confidence surprises me Fishy. We've probably had one season in the last twenty in which we didn't have an injury crisis (when we finished 5th). I have no confidence that our medical staff are any more competent than the rest of the club so I have absolute confidence that we will have shit loads more injuries next season.

[The Fish 10965]

Again your confidence surprises me Fishy. We've probably had one season in the last twenty in which we didn't have an injury crisis (when we finished 5th). I have no confidence that our medical staff are any more competent than the rest of the club so I have absolute confidence that we will have shit loads more injuries next season.

How often have we been without the key new signing, the 1st & 2nd choice 'keepers, the captain?

 

I know we're often the victim of an injury crisis, but rarely to such key players.

[David Kelly 1260]

That's reasonable, but pessimistic.

 

Put it this way, we've been shit throughout the season, had an injury ravaged squad and employed John fucking Carver as head coach for the final 12 games and we're still probably going to survive ahead of teams who're certainly playing better football than us.

I find extremely possible that we'll have Carver, an injury crisis and be shit throughout next season too. And when we are I doubt we'll have a run like we did pre the Spurs cup game to keep us above the relegation places. We're pretty lucky this season looks like (point wise) a pretty easy year to stay up. In quite a few previous seasons we'd be very much in the shit by now.

[David Kelly 1260]

How often have we been without the key new signing, the 1st & 2nd choice 'keepers, the captain?

 

I know we're often the victim of an injury crisis, but rarely to such key players.

We've had seasons without Shearer, Dyer was fucked most of his time here, we had to draft Tommy Wright in to play against the tramps, we had to get Pav back in as cover, Taylors never managed an injury free season in his career, Owen and Viduka were rarely available, Barton had loads of time out (admittedly not all through injury).

That's all off the top of my head. Having the two senior keepers missing for as many games is certainly rare but I really don't think it's been a massive part of our problems (probably only really cost us against Spurs).

 

To me it's obvious that we have injury crisis because we're not properly staffed. Certainly in the squad and quite possibly in the medical staff. That's why I'm confident we'll be here next season discussing what bad luck we've had with players being out.

[The Fish 10965]

I find extremely possible that we'll have Carver, an injury crisis and be shit throughout next season too. And when we are I doubt we'll have a run like we did pre the Spurs cup game to keep us above the relegation places. We're pretty lucky this season looks like (point wise) a pretty easy year to stay up. In quite a few previous seasons we'd be very much in the shit by now.

 

It's a point worth repeating;

 

Ashley wants a Premier League vehicle for Sports Direct, right?

 

Then why, in God's name, would he risk the huge income the club will receive by employing John Carver as full time manager? Why would he let Newcastle go the entire season with a threadbare squad on the off chance (and it is an off chance) we'd still be in touch come the January window ( a window that Charnley has stated they don't like using because you don't get value)?

 

I think there is so much pessimism and depression around the club, people are letting their emotions cloud their judgement.

 

Bottom line is that Ashley will put enough into the squad & management to keep us up, and that's it.

 

Is that shit? Yes of course it is, but it's much, much more likely than him risking the vast sums he'd get by keeping us as a going Premier League concern. People are seeming to think he'd risk £118m minimum to save £100k on coaches.

 

Relegation is a disaster for Ashley and nobody has given me a good reason why he'd do less than what I've said beyond "yeah but he's a cheap cunt".

 

He is, but he's not a stupid businessman and relegation is a disaster for his business interest.

[Howmanheyman 33844]

 

 

We might well do, but this season is also partly down to player injury.

 

we've been without Colo, de Jong, Cisse, Santon, Janmaat, Tiote, Dummett, Taylor, Krul & Elliott.

 

My point being that next season it's unlikely we'll suffer the loss of our lynchpin new signing (de Jong) our 1st & 2nd choice 'keepers, our fullbacks. Etc.

 

Meh.

If we take a gamble on an injury prone player to save a few precious shekels for our owner we may well be in the same boat next year. The full backs haven't just disappeared overnight by the way, we've been short in just about every area bar midfield for a few years. We went a full season with Ryan Taylor as our left back not too long ago knowing fine well Enrique would probably leave.

 

 

To be clear, you don't think I'm defending that behaviour, do you?

No, mind I didn't see Gloomy say you had high expectations either. I think he's saying, (and me), is that you seem a bit confident in us getting the required personnel in, I think it's anything but certain we'll get what we need especially if the pet lip appears with the fat huffy cunt which he's displayed before. The question Clint would ask him is, 'well, punk, do you feel lucky?' What can he get away with? Who can he get away with selling? Will he push the boat out that little bit further if his coach and scout implore him that a certain player would be crucial? Or will he do as normal and play hardball over any player without a clause or reasonable doubt to their fitness/attitude? That's what we're worried about. He's a gambler and he's a petty bastard who I can only see getting worse should the protests carry on and his shops get picketed, (particularly his one in Oxford Street).

[Dr Gloom 22149]

 

Ok, I'll make it simple in response.

 

Who the fuck is?

 

Andrew and I are saying we'll reinvest in the squad and have, repeatedly, said it won't be a host of superstars. It'll be enough to keep us up because that's all Ashley wants.

 

You seem to be saying the same thing but accusing us of having high expectations??

 

why are you arguing if you agree with me?

 

you said

 

 

 

Southampton brought in 8 new players for the 1st team and were having a tilt at the Champions League spots until recently. The right coaches can bring a group of players together quickly if they have the summer & the right man calling the shots on the pitch. From previous quotes and reports it appears Carr & his team are forever scouting out new players to present to the manager/head coach, Charnley et al. We'll still be looking for good deals, but this squad does need significant investment to achieve the very modest ambition held by it's owner.

 

stop me if i'm wrong, but that to me suggests you reckon ashley will invest significantly in order to reach his modest ambition of survival. i think this is where we differ because i think he will spend some money, but as usual it won't be much.

 

he is unlikely to net spend anything close to what the club can afford and what it probably needs to ensure survival. the current squad is one of the worst in living memory but i can't see him releasing the funds needed to ensure we avoid another relegation battle. we could be in a similar position next season to the one we find ourselves in right now and his strategy of winging it on a sports direct transfer budget could backfire.

 

the other thing i think we disagree on is the appointment of a new manager. you said you think it will be garde or "someone of his ilk". i would love it if i'm wrong but i'm braced for another underwhelming hire.

 

i think we both ultimately think ashley's a cunt, but you are more optimistic about how he'll tackle the new season. fair play to you for finding a sunny disposition during the football shitstorm we have had to endure the past couple of seasons, but ashley has managed to kill what little optimism i had left. my predictions are based on his track record, which has been a holocaust.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Dr Gloom