Scots Money

[JJ 0]

I still think we won't get independence to be honest. Like you say, Salmond should have destroyed Darling tonight, but his performance was poor too. Great chance to swing some voters, but nothing that happened tonight will change the outcome I feel.

 

I'll be casting my vote as it's all I can do, but I'm not optimistic.

[PaddockLad 17257]

Article seems to be suggesting that a poll or two on Sunday may well show the Yes camp with a slight lead....

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/05/britain-scotland-independence

 

I went to school in Kelso and own a property in the village where my parents still live. Am not getting a vote but it's very,very strange to think its actually going to be this close. In principle it's huge for the UK regardless of the vote, but the cynic in me thinks it might not matter a whole lot in the long term. The closeness of the vote gives those seeking independence a huge mandate for change which will inevitably lead to independence at some point in the not too distant future.

 

Another interesting article...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29011507

[JJ 0]

Article seems to be suggesting that a poll or two on Sunday may well show the Yes camp with a slight lead....

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/05/britain-scotland-independence

 

I went to school in Kelso and own a property in the village where my parents still live. Am not getting a vote but it's very,very strange to think its actually going to be this close. In principle it's huge for the UK regardless of the vote, but the cynic in me thinks it might not matter a whole lot in the long term. The closeness of the vote gives those seeking independence a huge mandate for change which will inevitably lead to independence at some point in the not too distant future.

 

Another interesting article...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29011507

Aye it's certainly got interesting. We've gone from working hard and deep down believing we had an unwinnable task, to knowing we've got a hell of a chance.

 

I said before, voting for independence is not just a vote for change and for Scotland to go it alone, but it's also in it's own way a massive vote of no confidence to the current system. Even if we do lose but have 46% or more of the vote, that's still a massive chunk of the population essentially demanding change and believing a better Scotland is possible. It's got to the point now the desire for independence isn't going to go away even in the event of a No vote.

 

Better Together really needed to go out and squash us in the vote and in all honesty it could have with a good campaign. But the fact that it seems every day support for Yes is growing is showing how the attitudes here are shifting. Really the only true question is whether the growth of the Yes support will run out of time. I have spoken to dozens and dozens of people who were firm No's at the start of the campaign, as was I. I haven't spoken to anyone who has gone the other way, although I'm sure there are some.

 

Exciting times up here.

[trophyshy 7083]

[Toonpack 9404]

This is a fucking great article, even though it's from the Guardian.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/05/independence-referendum-debate-intoxicated-scotland

 

Free Northumbria next please

[JJ 0]

This is a fucking great article, even though it's from the Guardian.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/05/independence-referendum-debate-intoxicated-scotland

 

Free Northumbria next please

Northumbria would be a great addition to an independent Scotland.

 

And yes, I'm completely aware that that will not happen, nor would the majority in the North East want it to happen.

 

Really good article. I'm pretty sure if Westminster really thought it would get this close they would have had more opposition to the referendum even happening. They assumed we would all fall in line, tow the party line and shut up. They're getting a bit of a shock that support of the Union is eroding, and as I said before, their best hope now is that the Yes side run out of time to gain the necessary support.

 

This referendum has opened many apathetic eyes to the failures of the current system. Whether Scotland could do better is irrelevant in some ways. No-one can predict the future. People are realising that Scotland completely governing itself would automatically mean the people of Scotland are better represented. There are a lot of people like me who are really fed up of blaming Westminster for our problems, and while they know Scotland would make mistakes (as the devolved parliament has at times) it's much better to be responsible for your own mistakes rather than just blaming someone else.

 

The desire for positive change has started, and regardless of whether it's a Yes or a No, that movement isn't going away any time soon. We've seen it the last few years in a big way all over the UK with all the marches against government policies. We're lucky in the sense that we've got a chance to create our own system. I hope we do.

[Renton 21623]

Seriously though, what are you going to do about currency and a guarantor bank? Economics really matter more than any thing else.

[PaddockLad 17257]

Is it not the case that regardless of what Westminster says, as a tradeable currency theres nothing technically to stop any country using sterling?....or is that just Salmond telling the yessers what they want to hear? So the guarantee bank remains the BoE, which doesnt seem like full independance to me like.

[Meenzer 15526]

It's a fiscal policy/control etc. issue I suppose, you have countries like Montenegro who use the euro despite not being members, but the drawbacks are fairly obvious. Could work as an interim solution though. Bosnia and the "convertible mark" also springs to mind. Outlived the actual Deutschmark.

[Renton 21623]

Is it not the case that regardless of what Westminster says, as a tradeable currency theres nothing technically to stop any country using sterling?....or is that just Salmond telling the yessers what they want to hear? So the guarantee bank remains the BoE, which doesnt seem like full independance to me like.

Well my understanding of the options are:

Create new currency, get raped by the markets.

Stay with UK pound, no real independence.

Try to join Euro, get told to fuck off.

 

I love Scotland, and would love it to be successfully independent, but want to know what JJ reckons about currency.

[JJ 0]

We'll be using the pound. Whether it's in a currency union or not will be what's decided. I'm pretty sure the statement that there will be no currency union was a political move that will be reviewed if we do vote Yes. Not that I'm necessarily saying they'll definitely agree to a union, but I think there's a decent chance.

 

And yeah, in the event of a currency union, that would leave the guarantor bank as the BoE. The rhetoric that in this situation "it's not full independence" is the type of thing I'd expect from a UKIP supporter to be honest. It would be like saying Germany and France aren't independent countries because they share a currency and lender of last resort.

 

The truth is though, the lender of last resort argument is a bit of a red herring. There are examples of countries without that true lender of last resort like Panama (I use them specifically because the Better Together campaign like to pretend its a third world country) who's economy is extremely secure. Of course it's a risk and I'm not saying it isn't, but it's not a cause of inevitable collapse.

 

I think the pound is the best plan, whether it's a currency union or sterlingisation.

[Renton 21623]

Well, thanks for clarifying. If I were Scottish, I'd vote no, because of major short term issues. Long term, it might be for the best.

 

But I'm from Tyne and wear. Scottish independence will be horrific for us, imo. So I hope you vote 'no'.

[JJ 0]

http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/09/06/latest-scottish-referendum-poll-yes-lead/

 

For the first time, we're ahead in a poll.

[trophyshy 7083]

Good strategic timing of another Royal parasite too, think that should help you over the line.

[TobamorisRevenge 0]

The Jacobite claim of King Albert of Bavaria, 90, and Prince Franz, 60, can be traced through the will of Charles Edward Stuart's younger brother, Henry, or "Henry IX" as he became when the Young Pretender died in Rome in 1788.

The Bonnie Prince discarded his mistress, Clementina Walkinshaw, and entered a failed marriage to Princess Louise of Stolberg in 1772. But there were no children. Henry, a Roman Catholic cardinal, died in 1807.

The cardinal, ironically awarded a pension by the Hanoverian George III in his later penurious years, passed the Stuart claim in his will to the former king of Sardinia, Charles Emmanuel IV, said by the Jacobites to be Charles IV. The right derives from Charles's great-great grandfather who married Henrietta Stuart, James II's sister.

From Charles Emmanuel, a member of the Italian House of Savoy, the Stuart claim then passed to his brother Victor, and then through Victor's daughter Mary Beatrice to the House of Habsburg-Lorraine. Mary Beatrice's grand- daughter married a prince of the Wittelsbach family, then rulers of Bavaria.

Any power the Wittelsbach lineage had ended when the Wittelsbachs ceased to have royal authority, when Bavaria became a republic at the end of the First World War. However the royal title is still used by the Wittlesbach's senior family member, King Albert, and his bachelor son, Prince Franz.

Count Christophe Preysing, president of the Administration of the Dukes of Bavaria, told the Independent on Sunday: "Prince Franz does not like talking about this matter of the Jacobite title. He really doesn't want to mix himself into British royal problems."

The prince, who studied economics and business, is an international trade diplomat who frequently travels abroad. "But most of the time he is in Munich at his home, the Nymphenberg Palace," said Count Preysing. Keen on the arts, like his Scottish ancestor, the Jacobite Prince of Wales is a former president of the International Council of the Museum of Modern Art in New York. King Albert lives at Berg Castle in Munich, the family's other royal home.

`a member of the Italian House of Savoy`

 

I vote for christopher lee as next king of scotland. via italian and franko royal lineage.......

[JJ 0]

Good strategic timing of another Royal parasite too, think that should help you over the line.

They've been good at shooting themselves in the foot. I joked that secretly they'd like us to leave, as every time we get some momentum, someone like Nigel Farage or David Cameron pipes up, which is only going to hinder rather than help their cause.

[JJ 0]

Haha I thought you mean the general royal family talking over the weekend. Just found out that Kate is pregnant again. Ach well.

[PaddockLad 17257]

The pound is down on the money markets, and the share price of Scottish based firms who have already stated their opposition to independance like standard life is also down. This may make a no vote more likely, the don't knows will play it safe iyam.

Edited September 8, 2014 by PaddockLad

[JJ 0]

The pound is down on the money markets, and the share price of Scottish based firms who have already stated their opposition to independance like standard life is also down. This may make a no vote more likely, the don't knows will play it safe iyam.

It's hard to say what effect this will have. I know some will argue that Standard Life's share price going down is due to the uncertainty they've perpetrated themselves by claiming they'll move south if we vote Yes. At the moment (and we have no way of knowing this for sure) the don't knows have apparently, according to polling agents, been choosing Yes over No at a 2:1 rate.

 

There's more of a growing opinion over the past couple of days here that the drop of the pound is mere proof that a currency union is the right way to go for both parties, in which case it would help Yes. I actually agree with you in the sense that it shouldn't have that effect, but that seems to be the feedback thus far. One of the problems the No campaign is having is that it's driven away a lot of undecideds with their constant scaremongering, that even in a situation where people should be listening, then they just simply refuse.

 

We'll see. It's getting really close.

[Meenzer 15526]

Good strategic timing of another Royal parasite too, think that should help you over the line.

 

[Christmas Tree 4725]

[trophyshy 7083]

[Monkeys Fist 42440]

 

(Duly nicked)

[trophyshy 7083]

If she loses this baby I'm calling red flag, donning a tin hat and feeling denpressure.

[topcat 0]

Double good news day for the Yes campaign ...

 

First we get royal baby announcement followed by Gordon Brown (a former dud PM, co-pilot of an economic shambles and a current back bencher with no powers whatsoever) pitch up and tell us how we'll all be better off together but with nothing in writing - panic button pressed after weekend polls I reckon.

 

The additional powers (or devo max) option was removed by the establishment from the proposed ballot paper - now it's big Gordy dispatched north to sell it to us.

 

Oh the banter - the joy of seeing the Labour Party side with the Orange Order, the BNP, the Tories, UKIP, the EDL and the Glib Dums is a sad sight indeed.

Edited September 8, 2014 by topcat