ewerk 30409 Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 Don’t do drugs, kids. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strawb 4194 Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 Do drugs, but not with Gove 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 34954 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 Looks like a bad case of an over stimulated Shatner’s Bassoon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5189 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 19 hours ago, spongebob toonpants said: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/29/joe-biden-afghanistan-new-york-times-washington-post Fairly close to where I am This article doesn't say much though. The solitary point it makes in defence of withdrawing is that the cost of lives in maintaining the status quo remains significant. And that's fair enough but there's not enough detail given either in this article or in the one it links to, to actually be able to firm up that judgement. The rest of the article is attacking the press - and I'm normally right on board with that, but I'm afraid that Biden having been elected by 83m Americans and being supported by 70% of his country doesn't actually make him right, despite what the article appears to be claiming. It just makes his decision popular. It further claims that we shouldn't trust policy experts and military officials over a civilian generalist, which I find bizarre. I went into that one with an open mind but it's usual guardian style "look at us giving the floor to both sides of this without actually putting a credible argument forward" stuff. You made a better case for this the other day than this article does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21868 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 13 hours ago, ewerk said: Don’t do drugs, kids. That is a man who is clearly enjoying his divorce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21868 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 20 hours ago, spongebob toonpants said: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/29/joe-biden-afghanistan-new-york-times-washington-post Fairly close to where I am There is no mention of the Afghan people in that oped, or what’s in their best interests Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17165 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/25/blame-afghanistan-war-media-intervention?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other there’s no mention of 9/11 in this piece which appears to me to be Monbiot just screeching “LOOK AT ME, I WAS RIGHT AND THE REST OF YOU ARE WANKERS!!” I tweeted him these precise words and he promptly blocked me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21450 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 4 hours ago, PaddockLad said: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/25/blame-afghanistan-war-media-intervention?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other there’s no mention of 9/11 in this piece which appears to me to be Monbiot just screeching “LOOK AT ME, I WAS RIGHT AND THE REST OF YOU ARE WANKERS!!” I tweeted him these precise words and he promptly blocked me Is there anyone left on twitter who hasn't blocked you yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 32893 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 18 minutes ago, Renton said: Is there anyone left on twitter who hasn't blocked you yet? Me but he's on pretty thin ice let me tell you. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17165 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 27 minutes ago, Renton said: Is there anyone left on twitter who hasn't blocked you yet? I'm not aware that I'm blocked by anyone important tbh 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3860 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 6 hours ago, PaddockLad said: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/25/blame-afghanistan-war-media-intervention?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other there’s no mention of 9/11 in this piece which appears to me to be Monbiot just screeching “LOOK AT ME, I WAS RIGHT AND THE REST OF YOU ARE WANKERS!!” I tweeted him these precise words and he promptly blocked me How many Afghanis were involved in 9/11? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 9741 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 57 minutes ago, Kevin Carr's Gloves said: How many Afghanis were involved in 9/11? Where was bin Laden hiding? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17165 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Kevin Carr's Gloves said: How many Afghanis were involved in 9/11? Al Qaeada were being hosted by the Taliban in Aghanistan. If you'd had any military experience you'd understand this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 42204 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 24 minutes ago, Isegrim said: Where was bin Laden hiding? Pakistan, wasn’t it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21450 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 And what did Iraq have to do with it again? The whole thing was ridiculous, just posturing for the US domestic market. Created ISIS and probably led to thousands of deaths on European soil as a result, America itself being relatively well insulated. Maybe its best the US do give up on this war malarkey, they're not much good at it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3860 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 45 minutes ago, PaddockLad said: Al Qaeada were being hosted by the Taliban in Aghanistan. If you'd had any military experience you'd understand this And invading Afghanistan stopped Al Qaeda did it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17165 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 Nobody mentioned Iraq but yeah that was bollocks. Afghanistan wasn’t…..but mission creep, the needs of industrial/military complex, failure to truly understand the tribal nature of the country and how democracy is virtually impossible in such a society, the duality of Pakistan and the abysmally chaotic exit all added to the the utter futility of the 20 year campaign. Going in was in 2001 was required, appropriate and justified though. Pity they didn’t find Bin Laden at that point. Things could’ve been very different if they had… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 9741 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 35 minutes ago, Monkeys Fist said: Pakistan, wasn’t it? After he fled Afganistan when military forces entered the country after 9/11. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17165 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 7 minutes ago, Kevin Carr's Gloves said: And invading Afghanistan stopped Al Qaeda did it? Largely yes. Isis was something different, it was largely Saddam’s B’ath party Generals and militant Sunni militias who’d all been banged up together by the US.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3860 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 4 minutes ago, PaddockLad said: Largely yes. Isis was something different, it was largely Saddam’s B’ath party Generals and militant Sunni militias who’d all been banged up together by the US.. Not even close to being right it’s still out there waiting, rubbing it’s hands every time America invades somewhere. Saudi Arabia provided most of the 9/11 bombers and 90% of its funding. Afghanistan was seen as an easy target completely wrongly as it turned out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17165 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 35 minutes ago, Kevin Carr's Gloves said: Not even close to being right it’s still out there waiting, rubbing it’s hands every time America invades somewhere. Saudi Arabia provided most of the 9/11 bombers and 90% of its funding. Afghanistan was seen as an easy target completely wrongly as it turned out. I'm aware of where the 9/11 bombers & bin laden were from, I'm also aware of how Saudi Wahabbism informed their beliefs. Jihadists still exist under different or no names. Al Qaeda as a functioning group don't. With hindsight it wasn't worth the 20 year occupation but I'm unsure what other choice the US had in 2001 though. If you're suggesting the US should've targeted the Saudi state then I expect your carer will be in soon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 9741 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 In 2001 the Taliban had already made their name being islamist extremists when they destroyed the statues of Barmyan. They were also known to harbour and fund terrorists, including bin Laden and al Qaida, even before 9/11. The multinational attempt to topple the Taliban and to get hold of bin Laden and al Qaida was just a logical consequence of those terrorist attacks and totally justified in comparison to other actions in the aftermath of 9/11. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 Bloody politically aware ex squaddies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3860 Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 14 hours ago, Isegrim said: In 2001 the Taliban had already made their name being islamist extremists when they destroyed the statues of Barmyan. They were also known to harbour and fund terrorists, including bin Laden and al Qaida, even before 9/11. The multinational attempt to topple the Taliban and to get hold of bin Laden and al Qaida was just a logical consequence of those terrorist attacks and totally justified in comparison to other actions in the aftermath of 9/11. The Taliban really made their name during the Afghan civil ware when it was supported with AMerican money to impose control over the region and allow America access to the oil in the Caspian sea via a pipeline through Afghanistan with security for the area guaranteed by the Taliban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 9741 Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 33 minutes ago, Kevin Carr's Gloves said: The Taliban really made their name during the Afghan civil ware when it was supported with AMerican money to impose control over the region and allow America access to the oil in the Caspian sea via a pipeline through Afghanistan with security for the area guaranteed by the Taliban. Sure, but in 2001 after 9/11 it was the predominant international opinion that a military intervention was unavoidable. It was a huge discussion here as even a lit of former pacifists like members if the Green Party were in support of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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