Politics

[RobinRobin 11193]

11 hours ago, PaddockLad said:

13 dead, US servicemen injured 😓

And loads more civilians.  Not surprising (other than it has taken them this long to do it) 

[ewerk 30406]

 

Well done.

[Alex 34953]

Jesus wept  

[Rayvin 5189]

In a private conversation in 2010 with Holbrooke, the book says, Biden argued that America does not have an obligation to Afghans who trusted it: “Fuck that, we don’t have to worry about that. We did it in Vietnam, Nixon and Kissinger got away with it,”

 

We're just following in Biden's lead.

 

This whole thing has been a complete shambles. America looks even more pathetic at the moment than it did under Trump. Granted, Trump did a lot of the damage there for Biden to start with, but at his first real international test, Biden has taken a step down rather than up. This whole fiasco does such a disservice to everyone who worked and died for Afghanistan for 20 fucking years.

[Gemmill 44559]

This is a giant fuck-up, but the idea that Biden's America is worse than Trump's is absolute nonsense.

[NJS 4375]

It might and possibly should cost Biden political capital but polls suggest Americans support the withdrawal - though his approval rating are down. 

[Rayvin 5189]

4 hours ago, Gemmill said:

This is a giant fuck-up, but the idea that Biden's America is worse than Trump's is absolute nonsense.

 

Not exactly what I meant although I can see how it needed further explanation.

 

Trump devastated America's World standing and rather than redeeming it, with Afghanistan, Biden appears to have reinforced the perception of weakness that Trump created.

 

That's all I meant. America looks more feeble now than at any time in living memory, IMO.

[Renton 21443]

1 hour ago, Rayvin said:

 

Not exactly what I meant although I can see how it needed further explanation.

 

Trump devastated America's World standing and rather than redeeming it, with Afghanistan, Biden appears to have reinforced the perception of weakness that Trump created.

 

That's all I meant. America looks more feeble now than at any time in living memory, IMO.

 

It certainly looks incredibly insular now and the American dream is dead. Isolationism is not a great look, as we are finding out. As for Biden, he's clearly a better president than Trump. But Jesus Christ, talk about low bars. 

[spongebob toonpants 3959]

I'll be honest I think  Biden has done the right thing. What's the alternative, stay there forever?.

They and we should never have been there in the first place

[Dr Gloom 21868]

10 minutes ago, spongebob toonpants said:

I'll be honest I think  Biden has done the right thing. What's the alternative, stay there forever?.

They and we should never have been there in the first place

Don’t withdraw everything overnight? 

[NJS 4375]

Dont know how true it is but I  read the French have been getting their people out quietly for months. 

[Kid Dynamite 7012]

30 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

Don’t withdraw everything overnight? 

They didn't though did they? It's been a gradual withdrawal since last year. There was always going to be a tipping point where the Taliban decided to try their luck again. 
 

The bigger question is how the fuck did the Afghan army/police roll over without a fight? 

[Dr Gloom 21868]

13 minutes ago, Kid Dynamite said:

They didn't though did they? It's been a gradual withdrawal since last year. There was always going to be a tipping point where the Taliban decided to try their luck again. 
 

The bigger question is how the fuck did the Afghan army/police roll over without a fight? 

They could have tapered it way more than they have 

[Dr Gloom 21868]

They could have retained air support in the interim 

[spongebob toonpants 3959]

57 minutes ago, Kid Dynamite said:

They didn't though did they? It's been a gradual withdrawal since last year. There was always going to be a tipping point where the Taliban decided to try their luck again. 
 

The bigger question is how the fuck did the Afghan army/police roll over without a fight? 

They rolled over because they never supported the US invasion in the first place, they were getting paid to enlist so they did

They Aghans at the top were completely corrupt and siphoning money out.

The whole war has been nothing but a moneymaking excercise from the start

[Rayvin 5189]

I would find it hard to believe that most if any levels of Afghan government and military had much more forewarning about this than we did.

 

No we don't stay there forever, yes we never should have gone in, but to call all Afghani people who joined the democratic side "in it for the money or corrupt" is just poor taste IMO.

 

Viewed differently, what we have done is spent 20 years rooting all all the pro-democracy elements that the Taliban might have struggled to deal with themselves, and handed them over on a plate.

 

What exactly would have stopped US forces from continuing to occupy Kabul in full until they had evacuated everyone they needed to? Like fuck would the Taliban have launched an out and out attack on a full US contingent of soldiers.

 

It's because Biden doesn't give a fuck about the lives lost. Not sure I can be convinced otherwise. America first, no matter the cost.

[Rayvin 5189]

If I were China, I'd be accelerating plans for Taiwan and HK. The US is going to do fuck all, that much has been signalled.

[ewerk 30406]

9 hours ago, Kid Dynamite said:

They didn't though did they? It's been a gradual withdrawal since last year. There was always going to be a tipping point where the Taliban decided to try their luck again. 
 

The bigger question is how the fuck did the Afghan army/police roll over without a fight? 

They literally abandoned Bagram overnight and didn’t inform the Afghans until two hours after they’d fucked off. Meanwhile the Taliban were already capturing parts of the country.
 

There’s no doubt the Afghans felt isolated after that. They’d have fought a lot harder knowing that as a minimum they’d got US air support to back them up.

[Renton 21443]

2 minutes ago, ewerk said:

They literally abandoned Bagram overnight and didn’t inform the Afghans until two hours after they’d fucked off. Meanwhile the Taliban were already capturing parts of the country.
 

There’s no doubt the Afghans felt isolated after that. They’d have fought a lot harder knowing that as a minimum they’d got US air support to back them up.

 

Aye, abandoning the military base was insane  They could have securely evacuated  everyone from there as well, rather than a civilian airport in the city. The level of incompetence is mind boggling tbh, was Raab seconded? 

[Kid Dynamite 7012]

It's all good though. They've found room for Pen Farthings dogs on a plane. Which seems to be all a big chunk of Joe Public was bothered about 

[Toonpack 9316]

24 minutes ago, Kid Dynamite said:

It's all good though. They've found room for Pen Farthings dogs on a plane. Which seems to be all a big chunk of Joe Public was bothered about 

Dogs go in the hold, 250-ish people were also taken out on the plane, which was a private charter I believe, Ricky Gervais was involved,

[spongebob toonpants 3959]

I'm a little surprised that the reaction in this forum that the solution to a 20 year occupation of a foreign country is more US imperialism 

 

I also think that considering the situation over there, where there is obviously very little support for the occupying forces, the evacuation has gone as well as they could have hoped

[Kid Dynamite 7012]

31 minutes ago, Toonpack said:

Dogs go in the hold, 250-ish people were also taken out on the plane, which was a private charter I believe, Ricky Gervais was involved,

Any celebs going to charter a private plane for the 1000+ Afghans allies we didn't process in time? 
 

Not trying to be a whatsboutist arsehole, but the outcry on social media about these dogs has far exceeded any interest in the men, women and children we've left behind and it fucks me off 

Edited August 28, 2021 by Kid Dynamite

[Dr Gloom 21868]

Jesus wept

 

 

[Alex 34953]

Beyond parody