RobinRobin 11113 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 7 hours ago, Monkeys Fist said: I try to keep out of the Waffle thread, but I don’t really see the issue here. If you swap “antisemitism” with any other “ism”, not many people would be arguing for Corbyn’s stance here. Labour fucked up, Starmer accepted they did, Corbyn didn’t. That’s one of the multiple reasons he’s not the leader any more. The whole criticism of Israel issue is, I think, unrelated to what’s the actual issue here. The issue is that Corbyn was, as a party leader, weak as piss and wouldn’t make a decision, and, crucially, was blinded by his stance on Palestine, which allowed the antisemites to do their thing. Look at MF - all grown up 😉 Good points, well made. You should take part in the waffle more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorthernsoul 1221 Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 Not sure I'd want to take her on in trade discussions 😂 https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/11/who-is-new-zealand-s-new-foreign-minister-nanaia-mahuta.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonatine 11304 Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 9170 Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 They don’t forget, this guy was on Obama’s NSC 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21801 Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 13 hours ago, Sonatine said: Do you ever think this lady is a tory plant? Its almost too perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5164 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 (edited) Momentum and the likes of AOC are to Labour and the Democrats what Farage is to the Tories. Some people simply won't compromise their principles just to get a soft win. Not that Farage has principles but I reference him more in terms of political effect rather than motivation. I mean AOC has absolutely slammed the democratic party now that the election is over. This is just the new normal I think. Where I would take heart though, is that for all the words, these people are still going to vote for the party they criticise when the time comes. Edited November 9, 2020 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4365 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 She's right though - apart from normalising government and actually tackling the pandemic which of course are necessary and welcome, Biden won't do anything for vast tracts of the people who voted for him - just like Obama before him. Exit polls showed huge support for medicare for all but its nowhere near the table for Biden. Just like Blair he'll concentrate on the perceived people who won it for re-election purposes and completely ignore the base and then they'll wonder why the next Trump beats them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21801 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 it wouldn't be easy, even if it was top of his agenda, as the republicans have the senate. he will be a transitional president and will probably have to frequently turn to executive orders. he will rejoin the paris agreement, which is more important than anything else, frankly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4365 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 There an argument over why they failed to win the senate - one side says its due to support for BLM and defunding the police and the other says its due to lukewarm policy offers including no medicare for all. Funnily enough all the candidates who vocally backed medicare won and those that opposed it lost. They'll use the senate excuse for doing nothing while offering nothing to change it at the midterms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinRobin 11113 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 The issue here is that the USA is just not yet willing to embrace some of the policies espoused by AOC, Sanders, and Warren. Biden has only been elected because those who do want those policies held their noses to get rid of Trump (something which the Labour party seems unwilling to address properly yet). Had they not done so, Trump would have won, so it was pragmatic voting. They need to ensure that they retain those voters next time, and perhaps Harris is best placed to do so, and she can move slowly to more progressive policies. The alternative is the second coming () of Trump or his Barbie daughter. I think that the Republican party would prefer someone like Pence (which is not a good alternative really, however he comes across), but if Trump is still around, he will be making too much noise for the GOP to ignore him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4365 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 I understand the pragmatism argument but the Fox exit polls showed support for medicare for all at 73% - the problem is the infantile association between it and socialism which they need to get over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30221 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Where did you see the 73%? It doesn't tally with what I've seen. Fox asked about the ability to buy into a government health insurance scheme which AFAIA is different to Medicare for All which would be a single payer system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4365 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Fair enough, maybe I misread it but it still shows support for something in a direction that's nowhere near Biden's table. I know it's an eternal argument about pragmatism versus ambition and I know they won the big one but I think they may have done better down the card with something more. As I said if they only achieve minimal change over the next 4 years then it will be easier for the next Trump to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5164 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 We maybe need to pivot to a new word tbh - socialism has been very successfully poisoned in the American mindset. I was just reading before that AOC is thinking of chucking the towel in, incidentally. Going the same way as all principled left wingers sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21801 Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 someone is going to have to explain this one to me. exactly what is making the british public think, yeah - the tories are really bossing it right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30221 Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 It's easy. 40% of the country are cunts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30221 Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 Cummings could be following Lee Cain out the door in solidarity. In the middle of a pandemic and trade talks coming to the crunch and the Tories still make it about themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5164 Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 11 hours ago, ewerk said: It's easy. 40% of the country are cunts. That really is all it is. 40% of this country, come hell or high water, will vote Tory. That's the fixed number. As for Labour dropping points it looks like the Greens and the LDs have both benefitted, which suggests that 1% has come from lefties who feel alienated by Starmer, and 1% of centrist Labour members who just don't like the cut of Starmer's jib, presumably. The other 2% have probably just given up on politics altogether or defected to the SNP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5164 Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 Actually come to think of it, that 1% to the LDs could be over the new Brexit stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21801 Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 1 hour ago, ewerk said: Cummings could be following Lee Cain out the door in solidarity. In the middle of a pandemic and trade talks coming to the crunch and the Tories still make it about themselves. Big daddy cum cum last seen driving to Barney for an eye test Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 42004 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 2 hours ago, Dr Gloom said: Big daddy cum cum last seen driving to Barney for an eye test More Czech porn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonatine 11304 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 42004 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Isn’t Richard Fairbrass a Brexiteer and Covidiot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 34786 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, Monkeys Fist said: Isn’t Richard Fairbrass a Brexiteer and Covidiot? Yep. Meanwhile, the fucking brass neck of this lot https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54896340 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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