Politics

[Christmas Tree 4679]

spend spend spend let imigrants into the country like mad wasted money on stupid pointless things and not regulating things properly

 

You tell him deaders

[TheMoog 0]

spend spend spend let imigrants into the country like mad wasted money on stupid pointless things and not regulating things properly

 

At one point all the Tories kept on talking about was how they were going to match Labour's spending plans.

 

Doesn't change the fact that Labour were the ones who actually did it though - tbh I feel like most of these politicians are all pretty similar anyways, until I'm the dictator or this fair land nobody will see any improvements to anything.

[ChezGiven 0]

spend spend spend let imigrants into the country like mad wasted money on stupid pointless things and not regulating things properly

 

At one point all the Tories kept on talking about was how they were going to match Labour's spending plans.

 

Doesn't change the fact that Labour were the ones who actually did it though - tbh I feel like most of these politicians are all pretty similar anyways, until I'm the dictator or this fair land nobody will see any improvements to anything.

 

Labour did what?

[Christmas Tree 4679]

spend spend spend let imigrants into the country like mad wasted money on stupid pointless things and not regulating things properly

 

At one point all the Tories kept on talking about was how they were going to match Labour's spending plans.

 

Doesn't change the fact that Labour were the ones who actually did it though - tbh I feel like most of these politicians are all pretty similar anyways, until I'm the dictator or this fair land nobody will see any improvements to anything.

 

Labour did what?

 

It!!!!!

[Meenzer 15365]

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

spend spend spend let imigrants into the country like mad wasted money on stupid pointless things and not regulating things properly

 

At one point all the Tories kept on talking about was how they were going to match Labour's spending plans.

 

Doesn't change the fact that Labour were the ones who actually did it though - tbh I feel like most of these politicians are all pretty similar anyways, until I'm the dictator or this fair land nobody will see any improvements to anything.

 

Labour did what?

 

New Labour. You've yet to respond to Deadman's polemic.

[Christmas Tree 4679]

Big day for Special Ed today. Got to put on a good show at PMQ or his own side will get the knives out.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3809]

spend spend spend let imigrants into the country like mad wasted money on stupid pointless things and not regulating things properly

 

At one point all the Tories kept on talking about was how they were going to match Labour's spending plans.

 

Doesn't change the fact that Labour were the ones who actually did it though - tbh I feel like most of these politicians are all pretty similar anyways, until I'm the dictator or this fair land nobody will see any improvements to anything.

 

Labour did what?

 

Further relaxed regulation of the financial service sector allowing lehman Brothers to buy it's own debt from itself and show it as a profit in an attempt to shore up the toxic debt it had taken on in America which it thought would be a short term blip.

 

Wasted approx £29bn on failed IT projects.

 

Lied to parliament and the country in order to get a vote passed for war on Iraq which has cost a further £35 bn and lots of lives one of which was a friend of mine who was from the town of Crook in Durham.

 

Blamed the EU for policies affecting British agriculture and fishing when it was British ministers in the EU council which were backing said policies.

[ewerk 30221]

And of course the Tories would not have stood for any of that.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3809]

And of course the Tories would not have stood for any of that.

 

I didn't say they would. I hate this assumption by idiots that anyone attacking Labour is a Tory. I am not I hate the TOries as myuch as the next man. I am from a Pit village which was just about derelicted by the Tories. I saw my dad sell the turf from his lawn during the strike and then plant the whole garden with vegetables so we didn't have to buy as much.

 

However the fact is the Labour party fucked up big style when they were in power. Things got less fair the rich got richer and the poor poorer, working class lads got killed in a war they lied to get us into, child poverty increased and bankers got richer than ever while everyone else was worse off because the bankers fucked up. And what did they do when GOrdon Brown's pal brought the RBS to its knees? Did they put him through disciplinary procedures so the could withold his multi million pound pension? No they arranged for him to retire and keep the lot.

[ewerk 30221]

My point was it was that things would not have been any different no matter who was in government, the same effects are being felt around the world. As far as I'm aware, the government had no basis for witholding Goodwin's pension and he was cleared of wrongdoing by an investigation.

 

You simply can't blame the government for everything that goes wrong. Unless it's a Conservative government.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3809]

My point was it was that things would not have been any different no matter who was in government, the same effects are being felt around the world. As far as I'm aware, the government had no basis for witholding Goodwin's pension and he was cleared of wrongdoing by an investigation.

 

You simply can't blame the government for everything that goes wrong. Unless it's a Conservative government.

 

What investigation cleared Goodwin of wrongdoing. By this I don't mean criminality as actions don't have to be criminal to be worthy of firing.

[ewerk 30221]

The investigation was concerning the woman he was knocking off, my mistake.

 

However, the FSA have said that he did nothing wrong under their rules.

 

A lot of my former colleagues have spent years working with RBS and the problems went much much further than Fred Goodwin.

[ChezGiven 0]

spend spend spend let imigrants into the country like mad wasted money on stupid pointless things and not regulating things properly

 

At one point all the Tories kept on talking about was how they were going to match Labour's spending plans.

 

Doesn't change the fact that Labour were the ones who actually did it though - tbh I feel like most of these politicians are all pretty similar anyways, until I'm the dictator or this fair land nobody will see any improvements to anything.

 

Labour did what?

 

Further relaxed regulation of the financial service sector allowing lehman Brothers to buy it's own debt from itself and show it as a profit in an attempt to shore up the toxic debt it had taken on in America which it thought would be a short term blip.

 

Wasted approx £29bn on failed IT projects.

 

Lied to parliament and the country in order to get a vote passed for war on Iraq which has cost a further £35 bn and lots of lives one of which was a friend of mine who was from the town of Crook in Durham.

 

Blamed the EU for policies affecting British agriculture and fishing when it was British ministers in the EU council which were backing said policies.

Lehman Brothers was an American company so its corporate reporting methods were governed by US law. So thats gone from the list. However, i will say that the collapse of Lehman has everything to do with their fixed-income trading, purchasing sub-prime mortgage backed securities and the inevitable collapse of the bond instruments in 2007. In 2005, US lenders were giving out mortgages that were interest only and that could be rolled over monthly if you couldnt pay that month, just adding the payment missed to the total mortgage. Without proof of income. These deals had 2 years on them before they became proper hard mortgages. The spike in 2005 of these mortgages is in the same month that Lehmans collapses 2 years later, having bought fixed income bonds backed by these sub-prime mortgages. Regulation allowed that to happen but its not UK regulation per se. Whether the tories would have done it too (which is true) is not important, the mechanism of collapse relates to the extension of credit, the construction of fixed-income bonds from this credit and the inability of the ratings agencies to calculate the risk. The game works like this: best brains go to the top investment houses, second best go into brokering and dealing, third best go to ratings agencies, whats left join the regulators. Fitting Gordon Brown into this game is politicised nonsense.

 

Failed IT projects, you do realise that £29bn is about the same level as the interest we pay on the national debt. Such a small proportion to be utterly meaningless. So thats not a factor.

 

Lied to parliament. Yes. The cost of Iraq war? Spending that goes into an industry that has served us well, ignoring ethics and politics, investment into domestic high tech weapons industry has economic benefits, as well as costs. Not accounted for in the post, until they are, thats ignored.

 

The CAP and the usual arguments, yes very bad for us but its only a few billion and dont we still get the EU 'cheque' until the end of this year?

 

What did Labour 'do' then to leave us with this high debt and structural deficit? I cant link Labour's action to the total figures from your post anyway.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3809]

spend spend spend let imigrants into the country like mad wasted money on stupid pointless things and not regulating things properly

 

At one point all the Tories kept on talking about was how they were going to match Labour's spending plans.

 

Doesn't change the fact that Labour were the ones who actually did it though - tbh I feel like most of these politicians are all pretty similar anyways, until I'm the dictator or this fair land nobody will see any improvements to anything.

 

Labour did what?

 

Further relaxed regulation of the financial service sector allowing lehman Brothers to buy it's own debt from itself and show it as a profit in an attempt to shore up the toxic debt it had taken on in America which it thought would be a short term blip.

 

Wasted approx £29bn on failed IT projects.

 

Lied to parliament and the country in order to get a vote passed for war on Iraq which has cost a further £35 bn and lots of lives one of which was a friend of mine who was from the town of Crook in Durham.

 

Blamed the EU for policies affecting British agriculture and fishing when it was British ministers in the EU council which were backing said policies.

Lehman Brothers was an American company so its corporate reporting methods were governed by US law. So thats gone from the list. However, i will say that the collapse of Lehman has everything to do with their fixed-income trading, purchasing sub-prime mortgage backed securities and the inevitable collapse of the bond instruments in 2007. In 2005, US lenders were giving out mortgages that were interest only and that could be rolled over monthly if you couldnt pay that month, just adding the payment missed to the total mortgage. Without proof of income. These deals had 2 years on them before they became proper hard mortgages. The spike in 2005 of these mortgages is in the same month that Lehmans collapses 2 years later, having bought fixed income bonds backed by these sub-prime mortgages. Regulation allowed that to happen but its not UK regulation per se. Whether the tories would have done it too (which is true) is not important, the mechanism of collapse relates to the extension of credit, the construction of fixed-income bonds from this credit and the inability of the ratings agencies to calculate the risk. The game works like this: best brains go to the top investment houses, second best go into brokering and dealing, third best go to ratings agencies, whats left join the regulators. Fitting Gordon Brown into this game is politicised nonsense.

 

Failed IT projects, you do realise that £29bn is about the same level as the interest we pay on the national debt. Such a small proportion to be utterly meaningless. So thats not a factor.

 

Lied to parliament. Yes. The cost of Iraq war? Spending that goes into an industry that has served us well, ignoring ethics and politics, investment into domestic high tech weapons industry has economic benefits, as well as costs. Not accounted for in the post, until they are, thats ignored.

 

The CAP and the usual arguments, yes very bad for us but its only a few billion and dont we still get the EU 'cheque' until the end of this year?

 

What did Labour 'do' then to leave us with this high debt and structural deficit? I cant link Labour's action to the total figures from your post anyway.

 

Not true about Lehman Brothers http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/mar/15/osborne-blasts-fsa-over-lehman-brothers

[ChezGiven 0]

spend spend spend let imigrants into the country like mad wasted money on stupid pointless things and not regulating things properly

 

At one point all the Tories kept on talking about was how they were going to match Labour's spending plans.

 

Doesn't change the fact that Labour were the ones who actually did it though - tbh I feel like most of these politicians are all pretty similar anyways, until I'm the dictator or this fair land nobody will see any improvements to anything.

 

Labour did what?

 

Further relaxed regulation of the financial service sector allowing lehman Brothers to buy it's own debt from itself and show it as a profit in an attempt to shore up the toxic debt it had taken on in America which it thought would be a short term blip.

 

Wasted approx £29bn on failed IT projects.

 

Lied to parliament and the country in order to get a vote passed for war on Iraq which has cost a further £35 bn and lots of lives one of which was a friend of mine who was from the town of Crook in Durham.

 

Blamed the EU for policies affecting British agriculture and fishing when it was British ministers in the EU council which were backing said policies.

Lehman Brothers was an American company so its corporate reporting methods were governed by US law. So thats gone from the list. However, i will say that the collapse of Lehman has everything to do with their fixed-income trading, purchasing sub-prime mortgage backed securities and the inevitable collapse of the bond instruments in 2007. In 2005, US lenders were giving out mortgages that were interest only and that could be rolled over monthly if you couldnt pay that month, just adding the payment missed to the total mortgage. Without proof of income. These deals had 2 years on them before they became proper hard mortgages. The spike in 2005 of these mortgages is in the same month that Lehmans collapses 2 years later, having bought fixed income bonds backed by these sub-prime mortgages. Regulation allowed that to happen but its not UK regulation per se. Whether the tories would have done it too (which is true) is not important, the mechanism of collapse relates to the extension of credit, the construction of fixed-income bonds from this credit and the inability of the ratings agencies to calculate the risk. The game works like this: best brains go to the top investment houses, second best go into brokering and dealing, third best go to ratings agencies, whats left join the regulators. Fitting Gordon Brown into this game is politicised nonsense.

 

Failed IT projects, you do realise that £29bn is about the same level as the interest we pay on the national debt. Such a small proportion to be utterly meaningless. So thats not a factor.

 

Lied to parliament. Yes. The cost of Iraq war? Spending that goes into an industry that has served us well, ignoring ethics and politics, investment into domestic high tech weapons industry has economic benefits, as well as costs. Not accounted for in the post, until they are, thats ignored.

 

The CAP and the usual arguments, yes very bad for us but its only a few billion and dont we still get the EU 'cheque' until the end of this year?

 

What did Labour 'do' then to leave us with this high debt and structural deficit? I cant link Labour's action to the total figures from your post anyway.

 

Not true about Lehman Brothers http://www.guardian....lehman-brothers

You might not have understood that very well then, they were using UK law to trick their US accounts. Their US accounts are governed by US law. The loophole in the UK could be exploited under US law, they are a US company and their balance sheet is reported in dollars, not pounds, making the US regulators wholly responsible for the way Lehman's present their balance sheet.

 

Osbourne's point in that applies to the FSA but equally to US regulators who have responsibility for the oversight of accountancy practices of US companies. Again, where does Gordon Brown come into this?

 

Whats utterly hysterical about you trying to shoe-horn blame from the regulatory landscape is that the Tories recently vetoed a landmark EU vote because of the implications for the financial services sector in the UK. Osborne may 'blast' the FSA but when it comes to actually implementing policy, he is more protective of the institutions that created the crisis than any other party would like to be. Thats perfect irony right there.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3809]

spend spend spend let imigrants into the country like mad wasted money on stupid pointless things and not regulating things properly

 

At one point all the Tories kept on talking about was how they were going to match Labour's spending plans.

 

Doesn't change the fact that Labour were the ones who actually did it though - tbh I feel like most of these politicians are all pretty similar anyways, until I'm the dictator or this fair land nobody will see any improvements to anything.

 

Labour did what?

 

Further relaxed regulation of the financial service sector allowing lehman Brothers to buy it's own debt from itself and show it as a profit in an attempt to shore up the toxic debt it had taken on in America which it thought would be a short term blip.

 

Wasted approx £29bn on failed IT projects.

 

Lied to parliament and the country in order to get a vote passed for war on Iraq which has cost a further £35 bn and lots of lives one of which was a friend of mine who was from the town of Crook in Durham.

 

Blamed the EU for policies affecting British agriculture and fishing when it was British ministers in the EU council which were backing said policies.

Lehman Brothers was an American company so its corporate reporting methods were governed by US law. So thats gone from the list. However, i will say that the collapse of Lehman has everything to do with their fixed-income trading, purchasing sub-prime mortgage backed securities and the inevitable collapse of the bond instruments in 2007. In 2005, US lenders were giving out mortgages that were interest only and that could be rolled over monthly if you couldnt pay that month, just adding the payment missed to the total mortgage. Without proof of income. These deals had 2 years on them before they became proper hard mortgages. The spike in 2005 of these mortgages is in the same month that Lehmans collapses 2 years later, having bought fixed income bonds backed by these sub-prime mortgages. Regulation allowed that to happen but its not UK regulation per se. Whether the tories would have done it too (which is true) is not important, the mechanism of collapse relates to the extension of credit, the construction of fixed-income bonds from this credit and the inability of the ratings agencies to calculate the risk. The game works like this: best brains go to the top investment houses, second best go into brokering and dealing, third best go to ratings agencies, whats left join the regulators. Fitting Gordon Brown into this game is politicised nonsense.

 

Failed IT projects, you do realise that £29bn is about the same level as the interest we pay on the national debt. Such a small proportion to be utterly meaningless. So thats not a factor.

 

Lied to parliament. Yes. The cost of Iraq war? Spending that goes into an industry that has served us well, ignoring ethics and politics, investment into domestic high tech weapons industry has economic benefits, as well as costs. Not accounted for in the post, until they are, thats ignored.

 

The CAP and the usual arguments, yes very bad for us but its only a few billion and dont we still get the EU 'cheque' until the end of this year?

 

What did Labour 'do' then to leave us with this high debt and structural deficit? I cant link Labour's action to the total figures from your post anyway.

 

Not true about Lehman Brothers http://www.guardian....lehman-brothers

You might not have understood that very well then, they were using UK law to trick their US accounts. Their US accounts are governed by US law. The loophole in the UK could be exploited under US law, they are a US company and their balance sheet is reported in dollars, not pounds, making the US regulators wholly responsible for the way Lehman's present their balance sheet.

 

Osbourne's point in that applies to the FSA but equally to US regulators who have responsibility for the oversight of accountancy practices of US companies. Again, where does Gordon Brown come into this?

 

Whats utterly hysterical about you trying to shoe-horn blame from the regulatory landscape is that the Tories recently vetoed a landmark EU vote because of the implications for the financial services sector in the UK. Osborne may 'blast' the FSA but when it comes to actually implementing policy, he is more protective of the institutions that created the crisis than any other party would like to be. Thats perfect irony right there.

 

Are you fucking thick? Can you not read? I DO NOT SUPPORT THE TORIES YOU FUCKING HALF WIT. I am able to apportion blame where it lies because I do not support a party. Unlike you a Labour supporter who cannot admit they were hugely incompetent in certain areas which has massively helped to leave us in the position we are in. I am sick of talking to thik twats like you who cannot see how shit the Labour party were in power and when anyone dares to criticise them goes on about how bad the Tories would be because in your moronic world anyone criticising Labour must be a Tory.

[Guest alex]

Aye, he's coming across as the thick one here

[ChezGiven 0]

Calm down mate, nowhere in that exchange do you state who you support so being able to read only helps me highlight this to you. I am asking questions about what labour did but no one can give me a straight answer, people could say that its because we ran a deficit during our boom in the early / mid 2000s. This meant when the crisis hit, the debt we already had made the additional debt from the bailouts and the ensuing deficit from the recession post 2007 the fault of Labour spending plans.

 

You see i really wanted someone to make this argument because its not true. Its a misconception based on poor understanding of the issues and the preponderance of centrists and right wing economics editors with a dysfunctional view of macro. You see the surplus Spain was running over the same period? You see the deficit they have? You see the yield on long term Spanish bonds? Put those last 3 pieces of data together and then tell me that the austerity measures in the UK demanded by the bond market are due to running a deficit. If the exact same austerity (worse) measure are being implemented in a country who ran a surplus, how can our boom time deficit be to blame?

 

Hmm?

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3809]

Aye, he's coming across as the thick one here

 

So you also think the Labour Government is beyond reproach and not worthy of criticism?

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3809]

Calm down mate, nowhere in that exchange do you state who you support so being able to read only helps me highlight this to you. I am asking questions about what labour did but no one can give me a straight answer, people could say that its because we ran a deficit during our boom in the early / mid 2000s. This meant when the crisis hit, the debt we already had made the additional debt from the bailouts and the ensuing deficit from the recession post 2007 the fault of Labour spending plans.

 

You see i really wanted someone to make this argument because its not true. Its a misconception based on poor understanding of the issues and the preponderance of centrists and right wing economics editors with a dysfunctional view of macro. You see the surplus Spain was running over the same period? You see the deficit they have? You see the yield on long term Spanish bonds? Put those last 3 pieces of data together and then tell me that the austerity measures in the UK demanded by the bond market are due to running a deficit. If the exact same austerity (worse) measure are being implemented in a country who ran a surplus, how can our boom time deficit be to blame?

 

Hmm?

 

 

read the post I replied to Ewerk about two before you butted in.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3809]

Calm down mate, nowhere in that exchange do you state who you support so being able to read only helps me highlight this to you. I am asking questions about what labour did but no one can give me a straight answer, people could say that its because we ran a deficit during our boom in the early / mid 2000s. This meant when the crisis hit, the debt we already had made the additional debt from the bailouts and the ensuing deficit from the recession post 2007 the fault of Labour spending plans.

 

You see i really wanted someone to make this argument because its not true. Its a misconception based on poor understanding of the issues and the preponderance of centrists and right wing economics editors with a dysfunctional view of macro. You see the surplus Spain was running over the same period? You see the deficit they have? You see the yield on long term Spanish bonds? Put those last 3 pieces of data together and then tell me that the austerity measures in the UK demanded by the bond market are due to running a deficit. If the exact same austerity (worse) measure are being implemented in a country who ran a surplus, how can our boom time deficit be to blame?

 

Hmm?

 

 

read the post I replied to Ewerk about two before you butted in.

 

 

And I never said that Labour were at fault for their spending plans.

 

The Iraq war was very expensive even taking into consideration your weak argument about arms deals and £29Bn is a fuck of a lot of money to throw away completely regardless of how much is spent on anything.

[Guest alex]

Aye, he's coming across as the thick one here

 

So you also think the Labour Government is beyond reproach and not worthy of criticism?

Who's making assumptions now? I was just laughing at you calling him thick as a diversionary tactic for not being able to answer his points tbh. I keep out of this sort of shit because it's not really my thing and I don't understand much beyond the basics. I do find the input of the likes of Chez enlightening though. You're clearly just repeating rhetoric however. As evidenced by your refusal to answer the questions you're being asked. You're out of your depth but won't admit it imo.

[ChezGiven 0]

I didnt see that, those posts i just wrote take a few minutes to compose. And as for butting in, its been me prompting the debate with questions, i'm not butting into anything here.

 

Anyway, you're angry at RBS but RBS's problem was buying fixed-income securities with a triple A rating that were in fact junk. Thats the cause of the issue, if GB did some dodgy deal with Goodwin then GB is a cunt. Thats not helping us understand what Labour did to cause us to have to implement huge spending cuts across the public sector today.

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

Aye, he's coming across as the thick one here

 

So you also think the Labour Government is beyond reproach and not worthy of criticism?

Who's making assumptions now? I was just laughing at you calling him thick as a diversionary tactic for not being able to answer his points tbh. I keep out of this sort of shit because it's not really my thing and I don't understand much beyond the basics. I do find the input of the likes of Chez enlightening though. You're clearly just repeating rhetoric however. As evidenced by your refusal to answer the questions you're being asked. You're out of your depth but won't admit it imo.

 

mmm but Chez is to economics what Milton Friedman was to figure-skating.