Politics

[Howmanheyman 33056]

34 minutes ago, wykikitoon said:

Enjoy your trip

Enjoy this trip.

 

 

 

 

And it is a trip.

[Monkeys Fist 42329]

4 minutes ago, Holden McGroin said:

Exactly. Her generation are culpable for Brexit and Tory votes.

 

i live in hope the "Newspaper Generation" will be finished in 20 years and that will bring a rise in a fairer society. 

Sadly not just her generation. 
I know plenty of people 25-50 who voted Leave and vote for the Cuntservatives. 
 

It’ll take a total shake up of the political system ( Proportional Representation basically) to rid us of the Eton Party. 

[wykikitoon 20072]

Young Tory boy in the office.  Father used to be a principal of a college, decent job like.  he went to a private school.  Mother stayed at home and no doubt got smashed by derek the gardener every week.  He think's he's something special because he listens to Chopin, votes Tory and drinks a fine malt every now and then.

Sad cunt is 22, still a virgin, just started to drive and has the social skills of a fucking mushroom.  He lives in a massive Labour area in Leeds too.

Works in an industry that if things go pear shaped will be one of the first hit.  We have tried telling him were still not recovered from the last recession but he cannot see past his Ralph Lauren glasses his mummy and daddy bought him.

[Dr Gloom 21907]

1 hour ago, Rayvin said:

I read the Jewish rabbis statements about anti-Semitism and why The Jews had abandoned Labour in such numbers. It said there were two reasons.

 

1. The party has moved too far left.

 

2. Anti-Semitism.

 

I find the order of those statements interesting.

 

Corbyn was also backed last night by several other rabbis from across the country who don't have the media's ear.

 

Either way, I am enduringly incredulous that anyone seriously thinks that Jewish people are facing some kind of legitimate, state backed persecution under a Labour government.

If you get time, check out this long read by the brilliant Sarah Gibbs. She is a left wing Jew who used to vote Labour. 

She answers lots of questions, explains  why she is afraid and provides lots of evidence. 

https://medium.com/@sararoseofficial/everything-i-never-wanted-to-have-to-know-about-labour-and-antisemitism-649b5bc1e576

[Monkeys Fist 42329]

[Meenzer 15497]

 

[Monkeys Fist 42329]

 Where’s his tank top? 

[Gemmill 44738]

18 minutes ago, Holden McGroin said:

My mother (North Tyneside constituency ) has voted Tory for the first time in her life as she wants Brexit done. "Im not a TORY I just voted tory this time"

 

UN-FUCKING-BELIEVABLE.  

 

Its fair to say we arent speaking today.

 

Hopefully that constituency is safe.  

 

I cancelled her out. Glindon will not be denied. 

[ewerk 30517]

21 minutes ago, wykikitoon said:

Is it wise to listen to The Smiths today

Guess who’s voting for the Brexit Party.

[Dr Gloom 21907]

38 minutes ago, Renton said:

Great. Work chooses today to block me viewing toontastic. I'm blocked from signing in and therefore posting already, but now I can't even read it. Will be restricted to my phone from now on. 

Renton's boss: this will force that lazy git to do some work

[Monkeys Fist 42329]

41 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

If you get time, check out this long read by the brilliant Sarah Gibbs. She is a left wing Jew who used to vote Labour. 

She answers lots of questions, explains  why she is afraid and provides lots of evidence. 

https://medium.com/@sararoseofficial/everything-i-never-wanted-to-have-to-know-about-labour-and-antisemitism-649b5bc1e576

That’s a very good article (so far, I’m not done reading it yet- I’m as far as the section on Corbyn and the Mear One mural). 
Thanks for posting it mate, it’s already answered a lot of the questions I and others have asked on here. 
I’ll read the rest later today. 
 

Extremely uncomfortable reading to be honest, but once I’ve read the whole thing I’ll get back to you. 

 

[NJS 4376]

Gloom, do you think if Corbyn goes and there is a transparent disciplinary system in place that this could be put behind Labour or are they fucked for a while on this? 

[Rayvin 5217]

41 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

If you get time, check out this long read by the brilliant Sarah Gibbs. She is a left wing Jew who used to vote Labour. 

She answers lots of questions, explains  why she is afraid and provides lots of evidence. 

https://medium.com/@sararoseofficial/everything-i-never-wanted-to-have-to-know-about-labour-and-antisemitism-649b5bc1e576

 

I think its a brave article and I really get a stronger sense of why the Jewish community are struggling with this one. I mean, I wasn't blaming them for not voting Labour anyway, they can vote how they want, but it does at least shine a light on why so many of them are concerned. And I do have a lot of sympathy actually because they are genuinely caught between two horrible positions and are essentially expected to self sacrifice with little guarantee that Labour are taking this seriously.

 

One thing I think i struggle with a bit is that she's not spent any time on mitigations. It is undeniable, thanks largely to admissions from Israel itself, that the Israeli government actively tries to politically eliminate non-Israel friendly MPs. So I can see to a degree why there is a strong sensitivity around this issue within Labour. So the Israeli government is hardly helping their cause either, in fact I suspect that this is actively the response it wants. And I don't say this out of some sense that there's a Jewish collective that wants to control things, but out of a 'It's a foreign nation that wants to make political gains by influencing the politics of another country'. See also Russia.

 

How do we counteract that? I mean tbh, if it was up to me I would issue a statement tomorrow saying that Israel was a fine nation and that i couldn't care less what it does because this shit really isnt important to domestic politics in the UK. But clearly that isn't possible.

 

The other thing is, like it or not, the media haven't helped them. No one in the mainstream media (I know) save for perhaps a handful of people, actually gives a fuck about this issue for what it is. And that is transparently obvious to any Labour voters. This is just the issue that stuck, the one thing that has really cut through and which the right wing press have been using over and over. There's a siege mentality within the left against this sort of thing anyway, and it makes getting anyone to listen very difficult indeed. However, we should be recognising that our Jewish comrades are caught helplessly in the middle of this, and that just because the right wing press are delighted to have something that actually lands on Corbyn, it doesn't mean it's not something of substance.

 

So when I say mitigations, I mean that much of the pressure on this has come from a right wing press that no one in Labour trusts (for good reason) and against a backdrop of Israel making clear that it actively tries to fuck up non-Israel friendly MPs. I think its fear and mistrust more then genuine hatred. Of course, the former ends up as the latter quite often.

 

Either way, I appreciate you sending it over and will keep it at the forefront of my thoughts on this. And I guess it has changed my view in fairness. I'll speak out more strongly on this in future, in defence of Jewish people. And I'm sorry for not having given it sufficient weight previously.

[Dr Gloom 21907]

16 minutes ago, NJS said:

Gloom, do you think if Corbyn goes and there is a transparent disciplinary system in place that this could be put behind Labour or are they fucked for a while on this? 

The fact that we're still talking about it several years into Corbyn's leadership answers your question. I think he's failed as leader on this issue and it probably won't go away until he is replaced. 

[Rayvin 5217]

I also think her conclusion on Corbyn is probably accurate. In his heart not an antisemite, but by his actions he is.

[Rayvin 5217]

31 minutes ago, NJS said:

Gloom, do you think if Corbyn goes and there is a transparent disciplinary system in place that this could be put behind Labour or are they fucked for a while on this? 

 

Seems like we're going to have to take Labour to task for this either way. These fringe loonies need kicking out, they're only hurting us anyway. The policies need to stay though. 

[Dr Gloom 21907]

26 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

I think its a brave article and I really get a stronger sense of why the Jewish community are struggling with this one. I mean, I wasn't blaming them for not voting Labour anyway, they can vote how they want, but it does at least shine a light on why so many of them are concerned. And I do have a lot of sympathy actually because they are genuinely caught between two horrible positions and are essentially expected to self sacrifice with little guarantee that Labour are taking this seriously.

 

One thing I think i struggle with a bit is that she's not spent any time on mitigations. It is undeniable, thanks largely to admissions from Israel itself, that the Israeli government actively tries to politically eliminate non-Israel friendly MPs. So I can see to a degree why there is a strong sensitivity around this issue within Labour. So the Israeli government is hardly helping their cause either, in fact I suspect that this is actively the response it wants. And I don't say this out of some sense that there's a Jewish collective that wants to control things, but out of a 'It's a foreign nation that wants to make political gains by influencing the politics of another country'. See also Russia.

 

How do we counteract that? I mean tbh, if it was up to me I would issue a statement tomorrow saying that Israel was a fine nation and that i couldn't care less what it does because this shit really isnt important to domestic politics in the UK. But clearly that isn't possible.

 

The other thing is, like it or not, the media haven't helped them. No one in the mainstream media (I know) save for perhaps a handful of people, actually gives a fuck about this issue for what it is. And that is transparently obvious to any Labour voters. This is just the issue that stuck, the one thing that has really cut through and which the right wing press have been using over and over. There's a siege mentality within the left against this sort of thing anyway, and it makes getting anyone to listen very difficult indeed. However, we should be recognising that our Jewish comrades are caught helplessly in the middle of this, and that just because the right wing press are delighted to have something that actually lands on Corbyn, it doesn't mean it's not something of substance.

 

So when I say mitigations, I mean that much of the pressure on this has come from a right wing press that no one in Labour trusts (for good reason) and against a backdrop of Israel making clear that it actively tries to fuck up non-Israel friendly MPs. I think its fear and mistrust more then genuine hatred. Of course, the former ends up as the latter quite often.

 

Either way, I appreciate you sending it over and will keep it at the forefront of my thoughts on this. And I guess it has changed my view in fairness. I'll speak out more strongly on this in future, in defence of Jewish people. And I'm sorry for not having given it sufficient weight previously.

I voted Labour because I felt the stakes at this election were so high but it was a very difficult decision. I was torn and held my nose in the end because I don't want my kids to grow up in Johnson's Brexit-land, Helen Hayes, our local MP, is great, and I like the socialist policy platform.

I've continued to bang about this issue because I know lots of people, including my own mam, a lifelong Labour party member, who can't vote Corbyn because of antisemitism. She is convinced he is an antisemite. I have sympathy for any jew, or any anti-racist for that matter, who feels let down by him and chooses not to vote Labour. I've said it many times during these discussions - the evidence of antisemitism and his failure to address it is there for all to see. 

Edited December 12, 2019 by Dr Gloom

[Rayvin 5217]

I think part of the problem was that the issue became hugely politicised early on. It wasnt raised in isolation, it was raised alongside a coup from the moderate Labour MPs and almost as an afterthought from the press once continuous banging on about his electability had failed to yield results.

 

As such, for me at least, it just got lumped in with all the other bollocks that was being spouted as a cynical move to take him down. Honestly, I barely even understood why anyone would be talking about it within the left, this whole Jewish global conspiracy thing I always thought was a right wing position. Anyway, Corbyn won't win power today and he won't survive any non-victory outcome, so we have a chance to move on from it with someone younger who isn't steeped in so much historical baggage around the issue. That's a start I guess.

[Gemmill 44738]

 

 

 

[Dr Gloom 21907]

17 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

I think part of the problem was that the issue became hugely politicised early on. It wasnt raised in isolation, it was raised alongside a coup from the moderate Labour MPs and almost as an afterthought from the press once continuous banging on about his electability had failed to yield results.

 

As such, for me at least, it just got lumped in with all the other bollocks that was being spouted as a cynical move to take him down. Honestly, I barely even understood why anyone would be talking about it within the left, this whole Jewish global conspiracy thing I always thought was a right wing position. Anyway, Corbyn won't win power today and he won't survive any non-victory outcome, so we have a chance to move on from it with someone younger who isn't steeped in so much historical baggage around the issue. That's a start I guess.

there's no question it was weaponised and i understand why people objected to it on those grounds. 

[Rayvin 5217]

Just now, Dr Gloom said:

there's no question it was weaponised and i understand why people objected to it on those grounds. 

 

Well I'm not saying they should have objected to it, I think now that actually they should have listened far more. But it's more an explanation of why people simply didn't trust that it was real.

 

Anyway I've shared that article around a bit. 

[Dr Gloom 21907]

4 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

Well I'm not saying they should have objected to it, I think now that actually they should have listened far more. But it's more an explanation of why people simply didn't trust that it was real.

 

Anyway I've shared that article around a bit. 

Yeah, that's what i was getting at. I didn't want to believe any of it either. it doesn't square with everything Corbyn stands for, does it? How can it be true? 

[Rayvin 5217]

A few days old but how has Johnson let himself end up in such a tight spot for his seat?

 

EDIT - nvm, further investigation reveals I got fake news'd.

 

This election man, fucking pain in the ass having to double check literally everything. 

Edited December 12, 2019 by Rayvin

[Sonatine 11350]

6 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

A few days old but how has Johnson let himself end up in such a tight spot for his seat?

 

 

 

I think it might have something to do with the fact he's a cunt, although I could be mistaken

[Rayvin 5217]

Aye except the Twitter handle is Brian elects so I've been had with that one

 

Brian can fuck off.