Politics

[Gemmill 44398]

26 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

But that could be avoided at least on the remain side if the LDs weren't attacking them. The question is, if this is all meant to be about stopping Brexit, why are the LDs undermining Labour's position on that front? It will win them no Tory voters.

 

Listen, I think Swinson has proven to be an arsehole in this campaign, but you can't expect her to do Labour a favour. They've left open goals and she is quite rightly booting the ball into the net for her own party's gain. 

[Gemmill 44398]

19 minutes ago, Alex said:

Who do you reckon looked most awkward in the boxing ring btw? Swinson or Farage? 

 

Johnson with the mop has been the best so far. Clearly never picked one up in his life. 

[NJS 4371]

33 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

I'm not suggesting that Corbyn's position can't be understood if you're prepared to give it a couple of minutes thought. But it's also a position that can very easily be framed negatively by both of their main opposition parties. It's as easy for them to get their "Labour are confused" message to stick as it is for Labour to get their "well it goes like this...." message to stick. 

 

And that is a big problem.

I've said before - and I think its true even if its true that Corbyn personally is a staunch leaver - that there's nothing wrong with trying to appeal to both sides - there should be plenty of middle ground between "they're traitors" and "they're thick racists".

 

However I'm not sure there's any evidence that that appeal is working so as Ewerk said maybe it is time for a "we respect your view but you're wrong".

 

Swinson was asked the other day how she could encompass leavers if she could actually revoke and she gave no answer whatsoever - just like May and the rest of the tories maintaining that actually getting out would "heal the rift" and other such bollocks.

 

.

[Rayvin 5183]

38 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

 

Listen, I think Swinson has proven to be an arsehole in this campaign, but you can't expect her to do Labour a favour. They've left open goals and she is quite rightly booting the ball into the net for her own party's gain. 

 

Yeah, fair enough if that's the lay of the land. But then the LDs are no more serious about stopping Brexit than Labour are.

 

EDIT - in fact, Labour's stubborn sticking to the principle of letting the people putting this to bed would suggest they are in fact more serious than anyone else about reconciling the issue in a way that actually allows us to move forward.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Rayvin

[Rayvin 5183]

48 minutes ago, Anorthernsoul said:

Can someone layout Corbyn's stance on the main issues in some easy bullet points please as I'm lost with him. Tar.

 

What are the main issues in your view? They haven't released their manifesto yet so it's difficult for anyone to be totally clear on it. At my best attempt, here are the ones that sound fairly firm:

 

On Brexit he wants the people to put it to bed by going to Europe and securing a Brexit deal that won't harm the country, and then putting it back to the people in recognition of the fact that Parliament has failed sort this out.

 

On taxes it sounds like he intends to raise taxes on those earning more than £85k. Everyone else will be untouched, at least on income tax. Those earning over this figure will be paying 5% more than they are now which corresponds to a few hundred quid a year. But their take home pay is about £4k/month, so it's not a massive deal.

 

On the NHS, Labour will of course put more money in which will reduce waiting times and improve care. The country can afford this and indeed would benefit from a good round of spending, as evidenced by the fact that even the Tories are claiming that they need to spend money now. It's good economics.

 

That's all I know for certain really off the top of my head. Many other points have been raised like 4 day working weeks and so on (which I think would be better phrased as 32 hour weeks, since the data is actually that companies are just as productive with employees working 6 hours per day as they are when they work 8), but we don't know the specifics for the manifesto yet.

 

Obviously he plans to renationalise rail and some utilities as well to stop them being owned by foreign governments and ideally to lower costs (although ewerk put up a decent criticism of this move a few pages back).

Edited November 14, 2019 by Rayvin

[Meenzer 15407]

On 01/11/2019 at 14:27, Meenzer said:

 

I've already bet on the Lib Dems getting <25.5 seats. I know May fucked it up from this position but I can't imagine a repeat performance.

 

I could now cash out for a 45% profit, which shows you what a stellar two weeks Swinson has had.  

[Monkeys Fist 42066]

16 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

What are the main issues in your view? They haven't released their manifesto yet so it's difficult for anyone to be totally clear on it. At my best attempt, here are the ones that sound fairly firm:

 

On Brexit he wants the people to put it to bed by going to Europe and securing a Brexit deal that won't harm the country, and then putting it back to the people in recognition of the fact that Parliament has failed sort this out.

 

On taxes it sounds like he intends to raise taxes on those earning more than £85k. Everyone else will be untouched, at least on income tax. Those earning over this figure will be paying 5% more than they are now which corresponds to a few hundred quid a year. But their take home pay is about £4k/month, so it's not a massive deal.

 

On the NHS, Labour will of course put more money in which will reduce waiting times and improve care. The country can afford this and indeed would benefit from a good round of spending, as evidenced by the fact that even the Tories are claiming that they need to spend money now. It's good economics.

 

That's all I know for certain really off the top of my head. Many other points have been raised like 4 day working weeks and so on (which I think would be better phrased as 32 hour weeks, since the data is actually that companies are just as productive with employees working 6 hours per day as they are when they work 8), but we don't know the specifics for the manifesto yet.

 

Obviously he plans to renationalise rail and some utilities as well to stop them being owned by foreign governments and ideally to lower costs (although ewerk put up a decent criticism of this move a few pages back).

Funny you should mention that Labour haven’t yet released their Manifesto.…

 

The BBC are clearly employing clairvoyants ( so long as they’re Torys). 
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50291676?app=news.election.2019.story.50291676.page

[Rayvin 5183]

Maybe I'm wrong? Have Labour released it and I missed it?

[Gemmill 44398]

 

Live footage of the release. 

 

 

[Gemmill 44398]

"I think you should take that back old boy!" :lol'

 

 

[Monkeys Fist 42066]

Lavery thinking “ I could one-punch this cunt”

[Gemmill 44398]

First Brexit Party candidate withdraws within an hour of the deadline. In a seat that Labour won by 22 votes last time. 

 

I bet this won't be the last... 

[Alex 34846]

1 hour ago, Gemmill said:

"I think you should take that back old boy!" :lol'

 

 

How statesmanlike 

[Gemmill 44398]

No BXP candidate in Canterbury either

The fix is in. 

[Rayvin 5183]

They weren't running last time out either. It's not making it inevitable that Labour will lose those seats, just more difficult.

[ewerk 30266]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50427369

Another pointless pledge by Labour that just heaps billions onto the cost of their plan.

Stop fucking nationalising everything!

[NJS 4371]

One of thatchers greatest crimes was preventing BT from getting into cable to sweeten the pot for the city. 

 

Set the country back years at the altar of privatisation and capitalism. 

 

They could just nationalise openreach. 

[Rayvin 5183]

Actually I quite like the sound of that one.

[Renton 21311]

Harry Enfield's tory boy has literally just been on QT. Nobody can really be like that can they? 

[Meenzer 15407]

I did wonder why Tory Boy was trending on Twitter.

 

(Yes, I appear to be back on Twitter. )

[Renton 21311]

James Cleverly has been eviscerated tonight. Again. I almost feel sorry for him. Almost. 

[RobinRobin 11138]

11 hours ago, Rayvin said:

On Brexit he wants the people to put it to bed by going to Europe and securing a Brexit deal that won't harm the country, and then putting it back to the people in recognition of the fact that Parliament has failed sort this out.

From a (fortunately) outsider's point of view, this is the main issue.  What does any of that mean?  Has that not what has been argued about by everyone for the past 3 years?  I am afraid it looks wishy-washy between the adamant leavers and remainers, but is clearly more on the leavers side than the remainers. 

So do you not end up losing the remainers completely, and splitting the leavers?  Given there are probably more rabid leavers than tepid ones, what does that achieve?

[Alex 34846]

Breakfast News on the BBC speaking to a trawler fisherman again. Who gives a fuck? It’s a minuscule part of the economy and the only reason they’ve still got anything to fish is because of the quotas.

[NJS 4371]

3 hours ago, RobinRobin said:

From a (fortunately) outsider's point of view, this is the main issue.  What does any of that mean?  Has that not what has been argued about by everyone for the past 3 years?  I am afraid it looks wishy-washy between the adamant leavers and remainers, but is clearly more on the leavers side than the remainers. 

So do you not end up losing the remainers completely, and splitting the leavers?  Given there are probably more rabid leavers than tepid ones, what does that achieve?

The past three years have been defined by the tory red lines though - a more compromising set would invite a more reasonable deal. 

[ewerk 30266]

8 hours ago, Rayvin said:

Actually I quite like the sound of that one.

Why? It's isn't really an issue to 99% of the people in this country, broadband is relatively inexpensive at the moment.

Nationalisation is like cat nip to the momentum lot but most people are either indifferent or even worse the word strikes fear into their hearts. It's a net vote loser in my opinion and something they should probably be keeping quiet rather than promoting.