Politics

[Rayvin 5176]

Why wouldn't he? Seriously, why wouldn't he? What the fuck possible advantage is there to Labour in not backing it.

 

EDIT - which isn't to say I think you're wrong btw. I'm just incredulous that it could even be in doubt and frustrated that this is where Labour are.

Edited July 25, 2019 by Rayvin

[ewerk 30266]

He's a stubborn cunt who perhaps wants to be the one to put down the motion himself rather than see the Lib Dems receive the credit.

I could be wrong of course. There will be quite a few pissed off Tories this morning so it could work.

[Rayvin 5176]

2 minutes ago, ewerk said:

He's a stubborn cunt who perhaps wants to be the one to put down the motion himself rather than see the Lib Dems receive the credit.

I could be wrong of course. There will be quite a few pissed off Tories this morning so it could work.

 

He's going to have to get used to the Lib Dems getting the credit for things Labour should be doing, for as long as Labour persist with not doing things things that Labour should be doing.

[Dr Gloom 21812]

time to go 

 

 

[ewerk 30266]

 

Edited July 25, 2019 by ewerk

[Rayvin 5176]

If they call one and Labour doesn't back it then yes, his hand has been strengthened. If one is called, Labour need to go all in with it.

[Dr Gloom 21812]

24 minutes ago, ewerk said:

 

that makes zero sense. labour keep bleating about a GE. a successful vote of no confidence is how you get one. johnson is assembling a GE cabinet. he will call one sooner or later anyway.  better to do it with him on the back foot, surely. 

[ewerk 30266]

Corbyn has never really been known for his great political manoeuvring tbf.

[NJS 4371]

IT's a fucking trap by that bitch man, if the cunts rallied around May, there's no way a confidence vote will pass before he's even met anyone in the EU or laid out a "plan".

 

 

[ewerk 30266]

1 minute ago, NJS said:

IT's a fucking trap by that bitch man, if the cunts rallied around May, there's no way a confidence vote will pass before he's even met anyone in the EU or laid out a "plan".

 

 

There's that kinder politics that Corbyn likes to promote.

[NJS 4371]

What happened with the last one? - the liberals went on for weeks saying Labour should call one, eventually they did and it failed and straight away Cable said they wouldn't waste any more time taking part in them.

 

Now there's a new tory leader for them to rally around and theyre off again playing games.

 

Anyway Swinson falls firmly in the "rather have a tory government than a Corbyn led labour one" camp.

 

 

 

 

[Rayvin 5176]

It may be a trap, but if she calls one Labour have to back it. Otherwise they're effectively demonstrating a vote of confidence in the government.

[NJS 4371]

It's an EDM from what I've read rather than a full vote call - no obligation for any of the fuckers to vote.

[ewerk 30266]

Also sounds like Corbyn and McDonnell are rowing back on their pledge to support a referendum on any deal. Duplicitous cunts.

Edited July 25, 2019 by ewerk

[Rayvin 5176]

I've fucking had it with Labour now tbh. Clearly the plan is that they're going to try to get in the same way the Nazis believe they can get in - extreme economic turmoil. So they'll let Johnson walk the country off a cliff, and then sweep in on the back of a punishment vote.

 

If this is the plan, then even if it means returning Johnson to PM, I will never vote for them. Not that I matter in my pointlessly safe Labour seat.

[Gemmill 44390]

Johnson is fucking shambolic at the dispatch box. 

[NJS 4371]

11 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

I've fucking had it with Labour now tbh. Clearly the plan is that they're going to try to get in the same way the Nazis believe they can get in - extreme economic turmoil. So they'll let Johnson walk the country off a cliff, and then sweep in on the back of a punishment vote.

 

If this is the plan, then even if it means returning Johnson to PM, I will never vote for them. Not that I matter in my pointlessly safe Labour seat.

How many times do I have to mention parliamentary arithmetic?

 

There is no big red button to stop brexit or have another ref - how many times does it have to be voted down for you to realise this?

There is no way to get a GE without Johnson calling it - as I said tories might be cunts but theres no way they will shoot themselves by bringing down a government.

 

 

 

[Rayvin 5176]

9 minutes ago, NJS said:

How many times do I have to mention parliamentary arithmetic?

 

There is no big red button to stop brexit or have another ref - how many times does it have to be voted down for you to realise this?

There is no way to get a GE without Johnson calling it - as I said tories might be cunts but theres no way they will shoot themselves by bringing down a government.

 

 

 

 

I'm not quite sure who you think Labour are appealing to though. There may not be a stop Brexit button, but there sure as hell should be a structured opposition to a hugely damaging government policy, and that opposition should be remain - a position Labour themselves campaigned for. Them taking a stance on this would demonstrate far more clearly that there are consequences to Brexit that are seriously worth opposing, and give Remain a force to rally around. Moreover, it will win them far more votes in any GE than their current position, which has them struggling to stay ahead of the Lib Dems. I mean fine, give the Tories what they need to be able to paint Labour as Remain - what fucking consequence is there to that now? Labour have lost everyone they're going to lose to this issue full stop - so choose a fucking side! Try to win back the 14% of lost voters who went for the Brexit Party, or try to win back the 50% of voters who went for the Lib Dems.

 

There is simply no good logic for their stance, and it is clear to me that they don't have the stones to take on Brexit properly, and simply want it to go away so they can focus on their other policy issues. They're fucking useless.

Edited July 25, 2019 by Rayvin

[Dr Gloom 21812]

28 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

Johnson is fucking shambolic at the dispatch box. 

shouty mcshouterson

[Dr Gloom 21812]

19 minutes ago, NJS said:

How many times do I have to mention parliamentary arithmetic?

 

There is no big red button to stop brexit or have another ref - how many times does it have to be voted down for you to realise this?

There is no way to get a GE without Johnson calling it - as I said tories might be cunts but theres no way they will shoot themselves by bringing down a government.

 

 

 

i think there might be enough disgruntled remain tories to rebel if Johnson takes us full steam ahead towards no deal, and another vote of NC was called. 

[Monkeys Fist 42066]

2 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

shouty mcshouterson

Cunty McCuntcunt. 

[NJS 4371]

45 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

I'm not quite sure who you think Labour are appealing to though. There may not be a stop Brexit button, but there sure as hell should be a structured opposition to a hugely damaging government policy, and that opposition should be remain - a position Labour themselves campaigned for. Them taking a stance on this would demonstrate far more clearly that there are consequences to Brexit that are seriously worth opposing, and give Remain a force to rally around. Moreover, it will win them far more votes in any GE than their current position, which has them struggling to stay ahead of the Lib Dems. I mean fine, give the Tories what they need to be able to paint Labour as Remain - what fucking consequence is there to that now? Labour have lost everyone they're going to lose to this issue full stop - so choose a fucking side! Try to win back the 14% of lost voters who went for the Brexit Party, or try to win back the 50% of voters who went for the Lib Dems.

 

There is simply no good logic for their stance, and it is clear to me that they don't have the stones to take on Brexit properly, and simply want it to go away so they can focus on their other policy issues. They're fucking useless.

POssibly true but if there's a GE tomorrow and all the remain before anything else vote LD or green and the tories/Farage win as a result then all they'll have done is ensure a hard brexit.

 

If its a minority govenment then their only chance of another vote will be labour as I'll bet the tories atill won't go for it - if they're in pact with Farage then they can't.

 

 

[Rayvin 5176]

4 minutes ago, NJS said:

POssibly true but if there's a GE tomorrow and all the remain before anything else vote LD or green and the tories/Farage win as a result then all they'll have done is ensure a hard brexit.

 

If its a minority govenment then their only chance of another vote will be labour as I'll bet the tories atill won't go for it - if they're in pact with Farage then they can't.

 

 

 

If there's a GE tomorrow and -all- Remain vote Lib Dem or Green, we get a Lib Dem or Green government. If you're just talking about that 50% deserter Labour voters plus the historical LD and G voters, then they aren't strong enough on their own, but it means that Labour with it's remaining 30% should be a kingmaker. And they have to choose between Tory/BP minority government, or a coalition of remainers.

 

But I was talking about a referendum really. The GE isn't going to help anyone at all, at any point. Which is why Labour banking on it is ludicrous.

[NJS 4371]

Theres no way enough peoplr feel strongly enough for places in the north east to not elect labour MPs - might not be enough to form a government but the idea of an LD government in their own right is unlikely.

 

Again despite the muddled position, the only realistic path to another ref is via Labour - a GE is actually more likely if Johnson does something stupid even for him.

 

 

[ewerk 30266]

We have a PM promising to try and scrap the backstop which won’t happen and a Parliament determined to stop no deal.

So what happens? If Johnson goes to the polls on a no deal manifesto he still haemorrhages votes to the Brexit party. If he goes for another referendum and loses then he can hope to hang on and hope it’s less of an issue in 2022. 

This isn’t about Brexit for the Tories, it isn’t about passing meaningful legislation, it’s about hanging on to power until the next crisis and another referendum might be the only way to do that.