Politics

[Andrew 4718]

5 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

Not going to disagree with that but for all I know that could be his first time in front of the cameras. He seemed to be panicking.

 

Hes not cut out for the path he's chosen  

 

On a more serious note I am very much done with giving anyone political the benefit of the doubt, I'm fed up of doubts, it honestly cannot be that hard to appear competent. 

[Rayvin 5176]

Just now, Andrew said:

 

Hes not cut out for the path he's chosen  

 

On a more serious note I am very much done with giving anyone political the benefit of the doubt, I'm fed up of doubts, it honestly cannot be that hard to appear competent. 

 

Tbh I'm not saying we give him the benefit of the doubt, I'm just saying that he's a reflection of Labour's fucking stupid Brexit stance. I mean even the ones who have a prepared answer are just talking in soundbites.

 

One thing I will note is that I got a fucking load of PR texts from him in the run up - and heard absolutely nothing about the other guy. So this guy was at least very fucking visible to me. Not that I voted, but still.

[ewerk 30266]

And if it were the media bombarding you rather than Momentum you’d be up in arms.

[Rayvin 5176]

The media bombard my phone every day..?

[ewerk 30266]

In every way.

[ewerk 30266]

Ian Austin gone now too.

[Rayvin 5176]

It seems like this is having a positive impact on Corbyn concerning a second referendum. Not that i have any idea how such a thing might be achieved now.

[NJS 4371]

7 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

It seems like this is having a positive impact on Corbyn concerning a second referendum. Not that i have any idea how such a thing might be achieved now.

I love this idea that if he'd supported it strongly since the conference it would have happened.

 

There aren't the tory votes for it.

[ewerk 30266]

6 minutes ago, NJS said:

I love this idea that if he'd supported it strongly since the conference it would have happened.

 

There aren't the tory votes for it.

I disagree. There aren't enough Tories who will defy the whip to vote for it but if enough of them make the case to the PM and use the threat of following Soubry et al out the door then it may happen.

[Rayvin 5176]

31 minutes ago, NJS said:

I love this idea that if he'd supported it strongly since the conference it would have happened.

 

There aren't the tory votes for it.

 

It doesnt matter to me if it would have happened or not in terms of my faith in Corbyn. His stance so far is an absolute betrayal of the membership. 

 

I mean let's remember that 65% of Labour voters (not members) voted Remain. 65%. The membership 90% wants a second referendum. He's thrown all of that away in order to pick up the non voting malcontents who delivered Brexit to us. They aren't his responsibility though, his responsibility is Labour voters and members.

 

It's pathetic.

[ewerk 30266]

Look at his calls for the MPs who have left the party to force by-elections as another example of his hypocrisy.

[Sonatine 11307]

 

[Dr Gloom 21812]

On 20/02/2019 at 11:28, Rayvin said:

 

I need it to be visible. Was she driven out by antisemitic abuse on Twitter or in the party itself? Would be amazed if the latter although yes that would clearly signify that some people need to be thrown out. On Twitter I suspect there is no way of verifying who is saying what or if they are Labour members at all.

 

I dont see what the deal about the Palestine lives thing is. A dog whistle I assume you're saying. The implication being that her resigning demonstrates that a blow has been struck to an oppressive regime in the middle east? I'm not sure that's antisemitic.

 

I'm not trying not to see this by the way (you could argue I am if you see an attack on Israel to be equivalent to an attack on Jews though), but i honestly don't see any real and tangible effects that this stuff is having day to day. I can see people living and dying on the streets, I can see racism on the rise, and i can see the county being torn apart... But I can't see any actual impact that what i assume are a number of Twitter based antisemites are having on the lives of people in this country.

Read this dispatch from Wavertree in the Gruaniad. It includes more evidence of what Berger was up against, from within the Labour party itself, not just the twitter trolls. (Though obviously she faced that too - one nazi threatened her to the point he was locked up.)

The chair of the Wavertree constituency Labour party (CLP) is Alex Scott-Samuel, a former academic at Liverpool University, who has appeared on a show broadcast by conspiracy theorist David Icke, claiming that: “The Rothschild family are behind a lot of the neoliberal influence in the UK and the US.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/feb/23/liverpool-wavertree-labour-constituency-antisemitism-luciana-berger-derek-hatton

[Dr Gloom 21812]

Corbyn didn’t speak to Berger for over a year, just as the antisemitic threats against her were part of a metropolitan police criminal investigation. Is it any wonder she couldn’t bring herself to back him in public? Meanwhile a conspiracy builds over whether she had police protection at the party conference  (in which one Labour MP waded in). She did have protection, the only thing the antisemites’ conspiracy got right so far is they weren’t armed with guns - tasers and batons don’t count, apparently.

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/luciana-berger-labour-conference-police-security-bbc-question-time-claire-perry-corbyn-1.472636

still, just a distraction. Just another MSM smear campaign. Nothing to see. 

Edited February 24, 2019 by Dr Gloom

[PaddockLad 17079]

Just watching Ms Berger now on Marr.

 

First thought is the most socialist provincial city in the UK isn’t having an ultra London metropolitan Blairite parachuted into a safe urban northern constituency at the fag end of the New Labour project as their MP any longer. If I was one of her constituents I wouldn’t want her as my MP. 

 

So it looks like they’ve driven her out. She’s odds on to lose her seat at the next GE. As Gloom has pointed out though the tactics some have used to bully her out are fuckin repulsive and Corbyn appears to be doing nothing to stop it. 

[Gemmill 44382]

Check out @JamesCleverly’s Tweet:

 

She's here from another planet. 

 

[Gemmill 44382]

Check out @MarcusFysh’s Tweet:

 

I mean what the fuck. This is the twat that replies "blah blah yadda yadda" when an expert schools him on twitter. And he's writing articles about Brexit Ghostbusters. 

 

Another one for the "I hope he has a massive heart attack" list. 

 

[ewerk 30266]

On 2/24/2019 at 10:31, PaddockLad said:

Just watching Ms Berger now on Marr.

 

First thought is the most socialist provincial city in the UK isn’t having an ultra London metropolitan Blairite parachuted into a safe urban northern constituency at the fag end of the New Labour project as their MP any longer. If I was one of her constituents I wouldn’t want her as my MP. 

 

So it looks like they’ve driven her out. She’s odds on to lose her seat at the next GE. As Gloom has pointed out though the tactics some have used to bully her out are fuckin repulsive and Corbyn appears to be doing nothing to stop it. 

Very good. But what exactly is it about her voting record/policy positions/size of her nose that you object to?

Edited February 25, 2019 by ewerk

[PaddockLad 17079]

16 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Very good. But what exactly is it about her voting record/policy positions/size of her nose that you object to?

 

University (3 degrees?) then straight into management consultant role then parachuted into a safe northern constituency she plainly thought was her “right” to represent, just because it would benefit her career path. I’d prefer politicians with at least some life experiences that the vast majority of the electorate can relate to. Westminter is chock full of these types and it’s to the detriment of our democracy iyam. 

 

 

[ewerk 30266]

2 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

 

University (3 degrees?) then straight into management consultant role then parachuted into a safe northern constituency she plainly thought was her “right” to represent, just because it would benefit her career path. I’d prefer politicians with at least some life experiences that the vast majority of the electorate can relate to. Westminter is chock full of these types and it’s to the detriment of our democracy iyam. 

 

 

 

She fought an open selection process and won the vote overwhlemingly and more than doubled the Labour majority in her first general election from roughly 3,000 to 7,000 and has since gone on to turn it into an incredibly safe seat since then.

But no specifics on her actual positions?

[Rayvin 5176]

3 minutes ago, ewerk said:

 

She fought an open selection process and won the vote overwhlemingly and more than doubled the Labour majority in her first general election from roughly 3,000 to 7,000 and has since gone on to turn it into an incredibly safe seat since then.

But no specifics on her actual positions?

 

If he's opposed to her as an MP because she's 'from another planet' as far as the electorate are concerned, why are you trying to determine if he supports her positions or not? You're talking about a metric he isn't even referencing. Clearly for some people, recognising the normality of their MPs in terms of modern living is important. It's why Theresa May attempts to play pool and fake being human.

[ewerk 30266]

Just now, Rayvin said:

 

If he's opposed to her as an MP because she's 'from another planet' as far as the electorate are concerned, why are you trying to determine if he supports her positions or not? You're talking about a metric he isn't even referencing. Clearly for some people, recognising the normality of their MPs in terms of modern living is important. It's why Theresa May attempts to play pool and fake being human.

Your MP's place of birth and university record should only be in any way relevant if they affect that MP's positions or ability to do their best for their constituents. Given her continual ability to increase her majority in Liverpool I don't think that her constituents have been unhappy with her performance so what the fuck does her pre-political life and the fact that he didn't work eight days a week down the pit got to do with anything?

[PaddockLad 17079]

2 minutes ago, ewerk said:

 

She fought an open selection process and won the vote overwhlemingly and more than doubled the Labour majority in her first general election from roughly 3,000 to 7,000 and has since gone on to turn it into an incredibly safe seat since then.

But no specifics on her actual positions?

 

Ok I’ll bend over and accept my arse kicking ewerk  

 

Am not aware of her voting record and am fucked if I’m googling it in a desperate attempt to make myself look clever on the internet. The circumstances of her appointment appear to be disputed if what I read at the weekend is true. 

 

In my opinion she’s plainly a centrist in the Blairite mould. As I’ve said in the past I never voted for him because I thought he was basically just another fuckin Tory. That feeling remains with Chukka & the rest of the fuckin chickens. They don’t seem to have realised that this 50 year argument on the Tory back benches has changed politics in his country forever. Populism is on the rise all over Europe. I think we’re stuck with it and the sort of corporate friendly fuckwittery of 20 years won’t win another election in this country for the foreseeable future. 

[PaddockLad 17079]

4 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Your MP's place of birth and university record should only be in any way relevant if they affect that MP's positions or ability to do their best for their constituents. Given her continual ability to increase her majority in Liverpool I don't think that her constituents have been unhappy with her performance so what the fuck does her pre-political life and the fact that he didn't work eight days a week down the pit got to do with anything?

 

Was he majority increased on the back of a left wing manifesto though? 

[Rayvin 5176]

1 minute ago, ewerk said:

Your MP's place of birth and university record should only be in any way relevant if they affect that MP's positions or ability to do their best for their constituents. Given her continual ability to increase her majority in Liverpool I don't think that her constituents have been unhappy with her performance so what the fuck does her pre-political life and the fact that he didn't work eight days a week down the pit got to do with anything?

 

I recall a great deal of frustration with George Osborne about the fact he was the chancellor on the back of having a history degree and never having worked a day in his life in terms of ordinary jobs.

 

I don't know how true the idea that she will lose her seat at the next GE is, but surely that weakens your position if true, suggesting that people vote for parties instead of individuals (which I personally feel is mostly true with some exceptional outliers). And again, PL (without putting words in his mouth, but we seem fairly aligned atm) is talking about her being a symbol of the general malaise and disconnect between parliament and the public. Maybe some grounding in what it's actually like to live under most of their policies as a normal person would be a useful experience for many MPs.

 

Whether the public vote for her or not, as we see with Brexit, does not mean they're necessarily voting in their interests.