Politics

[ewerk 30259]

How many incidents does it take to establish a pattern?

[adios 717]

12.

[ewerk 30259]

Well this is No.19.

[adios 717]

Somebody send up the Mossad signal.

[Rayvin 5176]

2 hours ago, ewerk said:

How many incidents does it take to establish a pattern?

 

I'm not disputing that he's anti-zionist. The pattern is clear there.

[adios 717]

27 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

I'm not disputing that he's anti-zionist. The pattern is clear there.

So he is anti-Jewish people believing they have a right to a homeland?

 

I really would like someone to clarify Corbyn's definition of Zionism.  And where is this 90% figure coming from?  It feels like the definition is a huge issue here.

[Rayvin 5176]

As covered before, i believe there is a distinction between a right to a homeland and displacing and persecuting millions of brown people to achieve one.

[adios 717]

Are you saying the two are inseparable?

[Rayvin 5176]

Um, no. I'm saying the opposite. Jewish people could have had a homeland without creating Israel, which was done in a way that was undeniably dismissive of the humanity and needs of the people already living there, presumably because they weren't white enough to be important.

 

Creating Israel was at best, unintentionally racist. This is not the same statement as 'Jewish people having a homeland is a racist endeavour'

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3809]

18 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

Um, no. I'm saying the opposite. Jewish people could have had a homeland without creating Israel, which was done in a way that was undeniably dismissive of the humanity and needs of the people already living there, presumably because they weren't white enough to be important.

 

Creating Israel was at best, unintentionally racist. This is not the same statement as 'Jewish people having a homeland is a racist endeavour'

 

 

So how was Israel created?

[Dr Gloom 21812]

I’ve already schooled him on the history. Been spending too much time with parky, I reckon 

[ewerk 30259]

49 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

Um, no. I'm saying the opposite. Jewish people could have had a homeland without creating Israel, which was done in a way that was undeniably dismissive of the humanity and needs of the people already living there, presumably because they weren't white enough to be important.

 

Creating Israel was at best, unintentionally racist. This is not the same statement as 'Jewish people having a homeland is a racist endeavour'

So you’re anti-Zionist?

[adios 717]

50 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

Um, no. I'm saying the opposite. Jewish people could have had a homeland without creating Israel, which was done in a way that was undeniably dismissive of the humanity and needs of the people already living there, presumably because they weren't white enough to be important.

 

Creating Israel was at best, unintentionally racist. This is not the same statement as 'Jewish people having a homeland is a racist endeavour'

But now it exists and we have to deal with reality not an alternate history. As such do these people not have a right to live where they live, to go home, in spite of being against how their government opresses people? Because they can still be defined as Zionists.

 

And yes, I realise using the phrases 'go home' and 'these people' is not a good look but I can't be arsed changing it   

 

[adios 717]

11 minutes ago, ewerk said:

So you’re anti-Zionist?

Not really a fair question but you know that:

https://972mag.com/fewer-british-jews-identifying-as-zionists-poll-shows/113858/

[Rayvin 5176]

2 minutes ago, adios said:

But now it exists and we have to deal with reality not an alternate history. As such do these people not have a right to live where they live, to go home, in spite of being against how their government opresses people? Because they can still be defined as Zionists.

 

And yes, I realise using the phrases 'go home' and 'these people' is not a good look but I can't be arsed changing it   

 

 

Absolutely they do. In my opinion. I've said previously on many occasions in the terrorist thread that the whole issue needs to be accepted for pragmatic reasons.

 

The point remains that taking a position against Zionism is not, looked at literally, racist. Islam contains within it a political ideology. Are we not allowed to criticise and reject that without being termed racists? It calls for the Islamation of all states. In effect, the Muslim 'homeland' would be the whole world.

 

Please note that i am not saying all or even most Muslims believe or want this. In fact i think less than half do.

[adios 717]

OK so by @Rayvin's definition I am anti-Zionist and by @ewerk's I am a Zionist. Glad we've cleared that up.

 

But more importantly, Corbyn is claiming the former, so unless we have evidence he's lying, this incident does not make him a racist.

[Rayvin 5176]

I dont even have an agenda in defending Corbyn anymore, i want him gone too - but this anti-semitism stuff is doing my fucking head in. I read an article in the Guardian the other day from someone who apparently backed Corbyn through every other anti-Semitism contention but drew the line at this one. Not the anti-Semitism definition, not Ken Livingstone, not the fucking mural, this statement. This statement was just beyond the pale, apparently.

 

FFS.

 

 

[ewerk 30259]

26 minutes ago, adios said:

Not really a fair question but you know that:

https://972mag.com/fewer-british-jews-identifying-as-zionists-poll-shows/113858/

You can be a Zionist without considering yourself one though.

[adios 717]

6 minutes ago, ewerk said:

You can be a Zionist without considering yourself one though.

Is this a Monty Python sketch?

[ewerk 30259]

I’m not sure. I haven’t really been paying attention to what anyone else has been saying.

[adios 717]

 

[Rayvin 5176]

Cable to resign in the next year or so once he's lubed the LDs up for the new centrist party's assortment of millionaires.

[Sonatine 11307]

 

[Alex 34838]

[Gemmill 44365]

What an arsehole May is.