Politics

[Alex 34832]

56 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

Have some of these kids been offending you or something?

 

If the working class are flooding to the Tories because they're being called names, then they are certainly the immature ones in this context. Why vote for a party that will improve your standard of life when you can choose the Tories as a safe space to prevent against being called names...

 

I think you give the working classes no credit at all. The reason the they abandon the left is because the left has generally had no message for them, preferring to prioritise other groups while maintaining the status quo and making it look like they're 'doing something progressive'. Not because they're being called names ffs.

He's either wumming or he's so lacking in self-awareness that calling someone a gammon is unacceptably immature whereas saying "You lost, get over it" every time his arse gets handed to him in a debate about Europe is somehow different.

[Christmas Tree 4685]

 

its not me saying this chaps, it’s The Times.

 

Personally I think she’s got a point. This army of social media warriors would be better put to use hammering Home the policies.

 

We are 8 years into an austerity driven Tory government that is still leading the polls.

[Rayvin 5176]

I don't think she has a point. All political tribes lash out at each other on Twitter.

 

Actually, if your point is that twitter is to civilised debate what a dictatorship is to democracy, then I'm in agreement.

 

But if your point is that middle aged men are forming opinions based on the rantings of 20 year olds on Twitter, than I despair for them. And the writer of that article. Fuck it, and the Times in general. And you.

[Alex 34832]

18 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

its not me saying this chaps, it’s The Times.

 

Personally I think she’s got a point. This army of social media warriors would be better put to use hammering Home the policies.

 

We are 8 years into an austerity driven Tory government that is still leading the polls.

Er, the article you linked to from The Times is an article from The Times is it? Cheers for that. Also, you articulated an opinion about the article. I wouldn't have normally pointed that out either but it seems like you think everyone bar you missed that.

[Alex 34832]

13 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

I don't think she has a point. All political tribes lash out at each other on Twitter.

 

Actually, if your point is that twitter is to civilised debate what a dictatorship is to democracy, then I'm in agreement.

 

But if your point is that middle aged men are forming opinions based on the rantings of 20 year olds on Twitter, than I despair for them. And the writer of that article. Fuck it, and the Times in general. And you.

It's an incredible 'article' like. Made all the more so by CT thinking it's making some profound point. It reads more like sour grapes and some desperate attempt to portray the right as somehow more dignified, intelligent and mature. Or, to put it another way, it's a bit PC gone mad.

[Dr Gloom 21812]

do the social media warriors join forces with the social justice warriors in the battle against the MSM, the alt-right and the MGTOW?

[Rayvin 5176]

9 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

do the social media warriors join forces with the social justice warriors in the battle against the MSM, the alt-right and the MGTOW?

 

From what I've seen, Social Media Warrior covers every group that you named.

[Morris 0]

Social justice warrior's are those who are fixated on identity and seek a faux prestige in victimhood. MGTOW/Alt-Right also guilty of this only their victims of choice are Caucasians, Males and Christians. 

[Andrew 4718]

5 minutes ago, Morris said:

Social justice warrior's are those who are fixated on identity and seek a faux prestige in victimhood. MGTOW/Alt-Right also guilty of this only their victims of choice are Caucasians, Males and Christians. 

 

Will you fuck off with the new accounts?

[Morris 0]

Just the 2. My 3rd one is no more.

[Monkeys Fist 42057]

Spacecadet

ducksmokesquack

morris

belial ( whatever it fucking was). 

 

4 accounts. 

[Monkeys Fist 42057]

 

What about his 1st Amendment rights, though but? 

[Christmas Tree 4685]

Good riddance.

 

 

[Monkeys Fist 42057]

3 hours ago, Christmas Tree said:

Good riddance.

 

 

FYP, Donner McLeod 

[Rayvin 5176]

This is well worth a read on yesterday's PMQs:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/16/corbyn-finds-the-formula-to-fire-up-the-maybot-just-ask-after-brexit

 

[Rayvin 5176]

Yougov poll shows that since Corbyn has become Labour Leader, anti-semitic views in the party have fallen - the range of statements asked are posed in the article but just for an example:

 

"Jews chase money more than other people" - the number of Labour respondents who agreed with this was 22% in the pre-Corbyn, New Labour era. And is now 14%.

 

There was also a fall with the Tories - they were at 31% for the same statement and are now at 27%.

 

The Lib Dems are about on par with Labour.

 

https://evolvepolitics.com/yougov-polls-show-anti-semitism-in-labour-has-actually-reduced-dramatically-since-jeremy-corbyn-became-leader/

 

So. Media shit storm blown out of all proportion to spin an anti-Corbyn narrative because it's literally the last thing anyone has to throw at him now that might stick? I think so, yes. Does anyone have any data showing that it has increased under Corbyn which would at least make a decent counterpoint?

 

As an aside though, as much as this makes happy reading in some senses, 14% is still worryingly high. The Tories at 27% is concerning too but I don't really feel that the Tory party membership is as representative of the ordinary person as the Labour one. That a quarter of their members are anti-semites should be a surprise to no one.

Edited May 21, 2018 by Rayvin

[Renton 21286]

5 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

Yougov poll shows that since Corbyn has become Labour Leader, anti-semitic views in the party have fallen - the range of statements asked are posed in the article but just for an example:

 

"Jews chase money more than other people" - the number of Labour respondents who agreed with this was 22% in the pre-Corbyn, New Labour era. And is now 14%.

 

There was also a fall with the Tories - they were at 31% for the same statement and are now at 27%.

 

The Lib Dems are about on par with Labour.

 

https://evolvepolitics.com/yougov-polls-show-anti-semitism-in-labour-has-actually-reduced-dramatically-since-jeremy-corbyn-became-leader/

 

So. Media shit storm blown out of all proportion to spin an anti-Corbyn narrative because it's literally the last thing anyone has to throw at him now that might stick? I think so, yes. Does anyone have any data showing that it has increased under Corbyn which would at least make a decent counterpoint?

 

As an aside though, as much as this makes happy reading in some senses, 14% is still worryingly high. The Tories at 27% is concerning too but I don't really feel that the Tory party membership is as representative of the ordinary person as the Labour one. That a quarter of their members are anti-semites should be a surprise to no one.

 

Do you really believe this? You don't think, for instance, that his views on nuclear deterrence are a huge issue with the electorate? Or of course the fact he is a brexiter? I think these issues alone are much more damaging than the antisemitic stuff. 

[Rayvin 5176]

Yes I really believe this, given the performance in the last election. With brexit, I genuinely think he is playing the hand he has to, as fucking annoying as it is to voters with brains - and the nuclear deterrent - I mean that was well discussed prior to the GE, and it did fuck all harm as far as I can see.

[Dr Gloom 21812]

all corbyn has to do is offer a referendum on the terms of the final deal, instead of offering nothing that sets labour apart from the tories. 

all he has to do on antisemitism is say, i condemn antisemitism. instead of his usual cop out: i condemn antisemitism and all forms of racism. but he can't bring himself to do it, just like with the ira situation. 

sacking the leading antisemites in the party woudl go some way to making these headlines disappear too, but he's too stubborn to do it

 

 

[Renton 21286]

7 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

Yes I really believe this, given the performance in the last election. With brexit, I genuinely think he is playing the hand he has to, as fucking annoying as it is to voters with brains - and the nuclear deterrent - I mean that was well discussed prior to the GE, and it did fuck all harm as far as I can see.

 

Ffs. He lost the GE against the most shambolic conservative opposition ever. Yes, he didn't lose as badly as expected, but ateotd he let the biggest bunch of incompetent malevolent cunts in living history govern us. 

 

Yeah, yeah, new Labour were just as bad etc, blah blah neoliberalism, etc. It's obvious to me that Corbyn is as much part of the problem as May. 

[Alex 34832]

Also, Labour are polling a couple of points worse than they were at the last election. Whilst the Tories are too all that suggests he simply can't win (when you take into consideration how the government have somehow managed to be even more shambolic than they were prior to the election).

[Rayvin 5176]

6 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Ffs. He lost the GE against the most shambolic conservative opposition ever. Yes, he didn't lose as badly as expected, but ateotd he let the biggest bunch of incompetent malevolent cunts in living history govern us. 

 

Yeah, yeah, new Labour were just as bad etc, blah blah neoliberalism, etc. It's obvious to me that Corbyn is as much part of the problem as May. 

 

So you absolve the media and indeed the voters of this? In your view, the issue is Corbyn first, despite his positive platform ahead of the GE.

 

I can see the flaws in Corbyn, believe me. I've articulated them enough times now. I'm just not plagued with tunnel vision on the spinning of narratives.

[Rayvin 5176]

5 minutes ago, Alex said:

Also, Labour are polling a couple of points worse than they were at the last election. Whilst the Tories are too all that suggests he simply can't win (when you take into consideration how the government have somehow managed to be even more shambolic than they were prior to the election).

 

Indeed, the Tories are 4 points up I believe? Still though, we have the great Brexit calamity to unfold before the next election, and if it goes down the way Renton thinks it will, the government will collapse. And really, Corbyn should win at a canter from there.

 

Either way, what difference does it make now? He's not going anywhere and the Blairite wing of the party are bereft of ideas or vision.

[Alex 34832]

Just now, Rayvin said:

 

Indeed, the Tories are 4 points up I believe? Still though, we have the great Brexit calamity to unfold before the next election, and if it goes down the way Renton thinks it will, the government will collapse. And really, Corbyn should win at a canter from there.

 

Either way, what difference does it make now? He's not going anywhere and the Blairite wing of the party are bereft of ideas or vision.

Almost past caring if I'm honest

[Meenzer 15396]

In weekend news, the Labour hard left failed in its efforts to parachute in a Momentum-endorsed candidate for the Lewisham East by-election. That's good news for me at least, means I won't have to get off my arse and deliver Lib Dem leaflets after all.