Politics

[Christmas Tree 4685]

Very clear from John Curtis’s analysis is that the majority of leave areas are voting conservative which means they do have to deliver Brexit.

[Renton 21288]

21 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

I dont think theyre as bad as the Tories. If nothing else New Labour were more competent.

 

Tbh though maybe you're right about them being able to defeat the Tories in Corbyn's position.

 

Unfortunately i wouldn't be able to vote for them though.

 

Well personally I find it incredible that, in a de facto two horse race, you won't pragmatically vote for the lesser of two evils.

 

And yes, come GE I will hold my nose and vote for the usrless cunt Corbyn.

[ewerk 30258]

26 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

Very clear from John Curtis’s analysis is that the majority of leave areas are voting conservative which means they do have to deliver Brexit.

Have they made gains from the left in those areas?

[ewerk 30258]

17 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Well personally I find it incredible that, in a de facto two horse race, you won't pragmatically vote for the lesser of two evils.

 

And yes, come GE I will hold my nose and vote for the usrless cunt Corbyn.

Hey, who cares about another five years of austerity and the destruction of public services when you have your 'principles'?

[Christmas Tree 4685]

1 minute ago, ewerk said:

Have they made gains from the left in those areas?

 

Apparently so according to Curtis.

 

Just highlights the position May is in. Any failure to deliver a meaningful Brexit will lead to a good kicking in 2022.

 

If Labour now don’t change the front team they are mad. If they had a decent leader and chancellor and filled the front bench with the best, rather than the cronies, they would romp home, even with their current agenda.

[Andrew 4718]

Quote

Ukip general secretary Paul Oakley has insisted it was not “all over” for the party and has defended his party by comparing it favourably to the Black Death.

He said the plague had caused a lot of disruption in the Middle Ages before going “dormant”.

“It’s not all over at all,” Oakley told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme.

“Think of the Black Death in the Middle Ages. It comes along and it causes disruption and then it goes dormant, and that’s exactly what we are going to do. Our time isn’t finished because Brexit is being betrayed.”

Challenged over whether he wanted to compare his party to a plague that killed millions of people, Oakley said: “Absolutely. What’s wrong with that?”

He pointed to positive outcomes from the Black Death: “It also led to economic growth and the Renaissance. It got rid of the whole issue of servitude, basically, and allowed people to go into the towns and escape their landlords and create their own businesses.”

 

Absolutely mental.

[ewerk 30258]

1 minute ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

Apparently so according to Curtis.

 

Just highlights the position May is in. Any failure to deliver a meaningful Brexit will lead to a good kicking in 2022.

 

If Labour now don’t change the front team they are mad. If they had a decent leader and chancellor and filled the front bench with the best, rather than the cronies, they would romp home, even with their current agenda.

 

 

You got a link to that analysis?

Edited May 4, 2018 by ewerk

[Rayvin 5176]

Remind me, what was the New Labour stance on austerity?

 

Its not a matter of principle. I'm just not going to enable the shit anymore. Same position i had pre-Corbyn. I wont be alone either.

 

Had the Corbyn experience been allowed to run its course without the levels of bitching, lying and sabotage from the rest of his party and the press, i might have tried to find the effort to hold my nose and vote... but frankly they're not worth my support. None of them.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Rayvin

[ewerk 30258]

You are enabling that shit though. You're enabling the Tories.

[Renton 21288]

4 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

Apparently so according to Curtis.

 

Just highlights the position May is in. Any failure to deliver a meaningful Brexit will lead to a good kicking in 2022.

 

If Labour now don’t change the front team they are mad. If they had a decent leader and chancellor and filled the front bench with the best, rather than the cronies, they would romp home, even with their current agenda.

 

A meaningful Brexit will mean economic Armageddon though. According to the government civil service and 99% of economists that is. Which do you think the electorate will react worse to?

[Christmas Tree 4685]

5 minutes ago, ewerk said:

 

 

You got a link to that analysis?

 

  BBC Iplayer BBC 1 about 2.30am

[Renton 21288]

4 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

Remind me, what was the New Labour stance on austerity?

 

Its not a matter of principle. I'm just not going to enable the shit anymore. Same position i had pre-Corbyn. I wont be alone either.

 

Had the Corbyn experience been allowed to run its course without the levels of bitching, lying and sabotage from the rest of his party and the press, i might have tried to find the effort to hold my nose and vote... but frankly they're not worth my support. None of them.

Fucking hell mate, if you think Labour under Miliband, who was elected by the unions, would have enacted austerity to anywhere near this extent, you need to reappraise everything, imo.

[ewerk 30258]

6 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

  BBC Iplayer BBC 1 about 2.30am

I don't think it's any shock to say that the Tories will have picked up UKIP votes in Leave areas. It doesn't explain though why Labour failed to make gains in remain areas, unless they aren't being seen to be strong enough in opposing Brexit. It's certainly not an endorsement of Brexit IMO.

[Christmas Tree 4685]

 

11 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

A meaningful Brexit will mean economic Armageddon though. According to the government civil service and 99% of economists that is. Which do you think the electorate will react worse to?

 

I don’t think anyone is forecasting economic armegeddon

 

Putting aside project fears version of a recession etc just for voting to leave, most models say over a number of years we won’t grow as fast. “Grow as fast”. That doesn’t mean we won’t grow or there will be a recession. 

 

It may may just be the odd 1 or 2 percent growth, wages will continue to rise and austerity decline. Joe public will see that compared to the armegeddon remainers have screeched about, life is pretty much as you were, but out of Europe and the promise of jam tomorrow.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Christmas Tree

[Renton 21288]

2 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

 

I don’t think anyone is forecasting economic armegeddon

 

Putting aside project fears version of a recession etc just for voting to leave, most models say over a number of years we won’t grow as fast. “Grow as fast”. That doesn’t mean we won’t grow or there will be a recession. 

 

It may may just be the odd 1 or 2 percent growth, wages will continue to rise and austerity decline. Joe public will see that compared to the armegeddon remainers have screeched about, life is pretty much as you were, but out of Europe and the promise of jam tomorrow.

 

Government forecast for the NE is 12% reduction in GDP. That's pretty fucking disastrous. 6% overall UK, more than half the NHS funding. Not one credible study has reported a positive forecast. I haven't even mentioned the wider implications.

 

Aye, voters are going to love this.

[Rayvin 5176]

Fair point CT. I'll judge the policy positions of whoever follows Corbyn, assuming it isnt one of the centrists.

 

If i can support enough of them, they get my vote. If i can't, I'm ignoring the whole shitshow. If that means the Tories then that's on the people who voted for them.

 

New Labour is just a slower descent to the same place though, and their failure to oppose austerity is what landed us Brexit.

[Renton 21288]

12 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

Fair point CT. I'll judge the policy positions of whoever follows Corbyn, assuming it isnt one of the centrists.

 

If i can support enough of them, they get my vote. If i can't, I'm ignoring the whole shitshow. If that means the Tories then that's on the people who voted for them.

 

New Labour is just a slower descent to the same place though, and their failure to oppose austerity is what landed us Brexit.

 

Brexit is New Labour's fault?

 

And of course corbyn is absolved responsibility for not opposing it?

 

Fucking hell, I've heard it all now. That's me out for the day.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Renton

[Christmas Tree 4685]

4 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

Fair point CT. I'll judge the policy positions of whoever follows Corbyn, assuming it isnt one of the centrists.

 

If i can support enough of them, they get my vote. If i can't, I'm ignoring the whole shitshow. If that means the Tories then that's on the people who voted for them.

 

New Labour is just a slower descent to the same place though, and their failure to oppose austerity is what landed us Brexit.

 

New Labours long gone. New faces, better presentation, dropping back a few dafter policies and your fairly left wing government would romp home.

 

[Ayatollah Hermione 13794]

Long time Labour voters who don’t vote for Labour to simply rally against the Tories are complicit to these evil cunts staying in control tbh.

[ewerk 30258]

That's you, that is @Rayvin

[Rayvin 5176]

31 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Brexit is New Labour's fault?

 

And of course corbyn is absolved responsibility for not opposing it?

 

Fucking hell, I've heard it all now. That's me out for the day.

 

I've been saying that austerity produced Brexit since the damn thing happened. And Labour under Miliband refused to oppose it.

 

So... you've heard me say this before is all I'm saying.

[Rayvin 5176]

19 minutes ago, ewerk said:

That's you, that is @Rayvin

 

Not yet it isn't.

 

Although Renton did just vote for a non-Labour candidate.

 

[ewerk 30258]

In a council election, not a GE.

[ewerk 30258]

18 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

I've been saying that austerity produced Brexit since the damn thing happened. And Labour under Miliband refused to oppose it.

 

So... you've heard me say this before is all I'm saying.

I don't think the public were ready for a left wing agenda back then tbh.

[Rayvin 5176]

2 minutes ago, ewerk said:

In a council election, not a GE.

 

And? His vote makes Labour look weak, increases uncertainty and reduces stability in the party.

 

Remember that:

 

41 minutes ago, Ayatollah Hermione said:

Long time Labour voters who don’t vote for Labour to simply rally against the Tories are complicit to these evil cunts staying in control tbh.

 

Edited May 4, 2018 by Rayvin