Politics

[adios 717]

Just now, ewerk said:

 

We shouldn't be looking for a gun-toting PM ready to follow the USA into any conflict but he has shown that he will avoid conflict except under the most extreme circumstances.

If he wanted to chose principle over pragmatism then he should have either come clean before the referendum. Half-heartedly pushing remain over leave when he doesn't believe in it isn't being principled.

Yes, he broke a Tory majority against a fucking robot. He was better on the campaign trail but he still failed to become PM and has fallen away again after the election and has proven incapable of effectively attacking the most disorganised, incompetent government in decades. 

He's pretty much fucking useless.

He couldn't really run on an "I'm on the fence" platform, could he?

 

I'm basically saying I (and I think a lot of us) want someone with his positions, a lot more strength and a little more pragmatism.  An electable centre-leftist.

 

Yes, we might not agree with all of their positions, but it's far fucking better than the alternatives (and I include New Labour in that).

 

 

[Rayvin 5223]

14 minutes ago, Renton said:

And as much to do with the Tory manifesto. They won't be making that mistake again.

 

What can the Tories offer that will appeal to anyone once Brexit is out of the way? More of the same?

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3894]

4 minutes ago, SpaceCadet said:

 

My parents don't have it and my grandparents didn't either so I'm hopeful that I won't have that problem.

 

Most dementias are not inherited.

[ewerk 30611]

1 minute ago, adios said:

He couldn't really run on an "I'm on the fence" platform, could he?

 

I'm basically saying I (and I think a lot of us) want someone with his positions, a lot more strength and a little more pragmatism.  An electable centre-leftist.

 

Yes, we might not agree with all of their positions, but it's far fucking better than the alternatives (and I include New Labour in that).

 

 

No it's clear that he was a closet leaver.

I'm not against an electable left wing candidate, I think that's what can win the next election. He clearly isn't it though, he still has the stench of an old commie to many. I'm not sure who the alternative is though.

[Rayvin 5223]

1 minute ago, ewerk said:

No it's clear that he was a closet leaver.

I'm not against an electable left wing candidate, I think that's what can win the next election. He clearly isn't it though, he still has the stench of an old commie to many. I'm not sure who the alternative is though.

 

How is that clear? I remember what he was saying in the run up and it was pro-Remain with touches of 'we should push for democratic reform within the EU itself.

 

If you're basing it on his position following the referendum, most of Labour has gone with him on that. Were they all closet leavers?

[adios 717]

1 minute ago, ewerk said:

No it's clear that he was a closet leaver.

This appears to be the only thing we're actually disagreeing on.  To which I say 'meh' and good day to you, sir.

[SpaceCadet 5]

9 minutes ago, Kevin Carr's Gloves said:

 

Most dementias are not inherited.

 

Such a creepy disease is dementia. 

[ewerk 30611]

He voted to leave in 1975 and as we well know, he isn't one to change long held views. His brother and other colleagues claim that he wanted out. His half-arsed performances in the campaign illustrate that he secretly wanted out. He wanted to trigger Article 50 immediately after the vote.

He's a goddamn leaver and if you can't see that then you're a goddamn fool.

[SpaceCadet 5]

There's also the sacking of Owen Smith for calling for a second referendum.

[adios 717]

2 minutes ago, ewerk said:

His half-arsed performances in the campaign illustrate that he secretly wanted out

Everywhere else this is seen as weakness but here alone it's calculated?

 

I really am tagging @Rayvin in now though.  

[ewerk 30611]

Compare his performances in the referendum to those when he was campaigning during the general election. It's night and day.

[Rayvin 5223]

Yeah no way am I getting involved in this one again

 

No thanks. It doesn't even matter anyway, whatever his personal beliefs are, he followed party line on Brexit and urged Labour to vote Remain - which they did. 65% of Labour voters went Remain. Eclipsed only slightly by the Lib Dems at 68%!

[Renton 21626]

He's obviously a leaver ffs! It's not up for serious debate. That he doesn't just admit makes a joke of his so-called principles. 

[Rayvin 5223]

6 minutes ago, SpaceCadet said:

There's also the sacking of Owen Smith for calling for a second referendum.

 

I would have done that and I'm a Remainer.

[SpaceCadet 5]

I get it. A second referendum is exhausting enough thinking about it. 

[Meenzer 15527]

3 hours ago, Rayvin said:

If you're basing it on his position following the referendum, most of Labour has gone with him on that. Were they all closet leavers?

 

The loony left insurgency has made it perfectly clear they'll work to get anyone deselected if they dare to step out of line. Understandable that lots of MPs would try and ride it out and see if the madness passes eventually rather than lining up to eagerly write their own death warrant. What a rabble the political class is right now though, on all sides.  

[Rayvin 5223]

6 minutes ago, Meenzer said:

 

The loony left insurgency has made it perfectly clear they'll work to get anyone deselected if they dare to step out of line. Understandable that lots of MPs would try and ride it out and see if the madness passes eventually rather than lining up to eagerly write their own death warrant. What a rabble the political class is right now though, on all sides.  

 

Aha, and naturally, that's what they were all thinking when they had that leadership challenge? Fearing for their own positions?

[ewerk 30611]

The threat of deselections has largely come since the leadership challenge iirc.

You're certainly in a fiesty mood these days.

[Rayvin 5223]

 

I so badly want to apologise for that...

[Christmas Tree 4725]

Now that momentum has control of everything I just can’t see any way back. The lunatic youth bloc vote are always going to vote for the leftist candidate who by their very nature will always be unelectable.

 

 

[Ayatollah Hermione 13869]

Until the youth outnumber the endangered gammon vote anyway

[Rayvin 5223]

Yep, so the Tories forever. Ever lowering levels of competence. At some point a centre left party will split off from Labour, obliterate the left wing, and deliver a 200 seat majority to the Tories. The NHS will be sold off, people will be dying in their homes as heating becomes too pricey over winter and healthcare out of reach of the poorest in society. Disaffected youths will form gangs in the inner cities, with police unable to control them due to ever increasing cuts. Soon only privileged areas can be protected properly, leading to segregation of rich and poor with the former in gated communities.

 

Or we could vote for a guy who wants to make the world a little fairer by using a fiscally responsible strategy of borrowing to invest, which would very likely hurt those at the top a bit, but which would demonstrate that we really are 'all in this together'.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Rayvin

[Meenzer 15527]

Unfortunately he also wants a hard Brexit that'll render his fiscal plans impossible.

[Rayvin 5223]

I was under the impression that Labour was continuing to flip flop on Brexit.

 

You know what though, if further down the line the Tories finally nail the plan for Brexit and it is, as predicted, an absolute shambles with hardly any public support - and then Labour rally around the single market as a sane solution in response, you guys are never going to hear the end of it from me

 

Kind of like how I never hear the end of your bleating about Corbyn now

[Alex 35083]

53 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

Now that momentum has control of everything I just can’t see any way back. The lunatic youth bloc vote are always going to vote for the leftist candidate who by their very nature will always be unelectable.

 

 

That's because the older generation are, by and large, selfish cunts. I mean, not you, obviously, given you voted for Corbyn at the last election.