Politics

[Meenzer 15731]

They concertrated on quality and innovation and are currently the only Euro country with a trade surplus. What they didn't do which the Tories did was give up and try and compete against the far east with the bargain basement stuff. The also didn't start portrraying workers as the enemy or greedy or unreasonable, the worked with them to develop excellent chemical industry, car industry, and hi tech and engineering products. In England of course we did the opposite, Thatcher started a war with the workers. i'vve read through some fo this thread and although I detect a lot of passion and energy, you really are very poorly informed, regurgitating the worst kind of nonsense.

 

Aye, but to achieve that you need a workforce of emotionless, humourless Nazis, remember?

[Park Life 71]

They concertrated on quality and innovation and are currently the only Euro country with a trade surplus. What they didn't do which the Tories did was give up and try and compete against the far east with the bargain basement stuff. The also didn't start portrraying workers as the enemy or greedy or unreasonable, the worked with them to develop excellent chemical industry, car industry, and hi tech and engineering products. In England of course we did the opposite, Thatcher started a war with the workers. i'vve read through some fo this thread and although I detect a lot of passion and energy, you really are very poorly informed, regurgitating the worst kind of nonsense.

 

Aye, but to achieve that you need a workforce of emotionless, humourless Nazis, remember?

 

Oh shit! Knew there was a flaw.

[Phil 6]

What? Every single time they speak, they bring up the deficit as something that Labour was entirely responsible for, which can be shown to be a lie.

 

we have the same rights to vote

[ChezGiven 0]

Picking up on alex's point about the deficit being the fault of the crisis. This is an economic fact, it was at manageable levels until the astronomical levels of spending required to keep the economy afloat.

 

One thing to think through a bit further though, why is France scaling back its public sector at the same time as the UK and Spain and Greece and Italy and... every fucker else apart from the Chinese? Did they all have labour government pumping too much money into quangos and the NHS?

 

Also, another thing thats worth further thought, where is the pressure coming from to cut back public expenditure? Why would Sarkozy with the lowest ratings of a president in history choose now to implement pension reform? I suspect because the European Central bank, the IMF and the bond market Kings are telling him unless he does so, they wont buy any more french govt bonds. Like they did to Greece earlier this year.

 

Think about it, the banks have fucked us over by getting us to bail them out then these same powerful insitutions (including central and federal banks) are saying that they wont buy bonds anymore until the money they gave to the banks is seen to be coming off their debt liabilities via deeply aggressive and socially divisive public sector spending cuts.

 

If you dont think thats wrong, you're fucked in the head.

[manc-mag 1]

Never before have intellect and footwear been so colossally mismatched.

[Park Life 71]

Picking up on alex's point about the deficit being the fault of the crisis. This is an economic fact, it was at manageable levels until the astronomical levels of spending required to keep the economy afloat.

 

One thing to think through a bit further though, why is France scaling back its public sector at the same time as the UK and Spain and Greece and Italy and... every fucker else apart from the Chinese? Did they all have labour government pumping too much money into quangos and the NHS?

 

Also, another thing thats worth further thought, where is the pressure coming from to cut back public expenditure? Why would Sarkozy with the lowest ratings of a president in history choose now to implement pension reform? I suspect because the European Central bank, the IMF and the bond market Kings are telling him unless he does so, they wont buy any more french govt bonds. Like they did to Greece earlier this year.

 

Think about it, the banks have fucked us over by getting us to bail them out then these same powerful insitutions (including central and federal banks) are saying that they wont buy bonds anymore until the money they gave to the banks is seen to be coming off their debt liabilities via deeply aggressive and socially divisive public sector spending cuts.

 

If you dont think thats wrong, you're fucked in the head.

 

Correcto. The war with the banks will come.

[Meenzer 15731]

A lot of this only applies flat-rate if you think we have no positive standing in the global economy. The US is more important, sure, but if the UK declares it's fucked then that sends an awful lot of ripples out around the world.

[ChezGiven 0]

Never before have intellect and footwear been so colossally mismatched.

 

Not today, some nice JM Westons with matching belt. Look like the dogs bollocks.

[Sonatine 11567]

How the spending review hit the poorest hardest, http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-stag...-poorest-income

[Park Life 71]

How the spending review hit the poorest hardest, http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-stag...-poorest-income

 

As expected.

[Renton 22007]

Bridget has just been on Look North, hair much better now she can afford a decent cut.

[Christmas Tree 4847]

I do think there's a big lie at work here though. Without getting into party politics because Labour are just as bad / would be the same if the roles are reversed. The lie is that the previous government are solely to blame for the current massive levels of debt when it's basically the fault of the banks. The said banks have been bailed out and the Tories would've done the same thing. The banks'll recover on the whole and many already seem to have done so, turning in profits and so on but it's public sector workers and, by extension, private sector workers, who are having to and will have to pay for this bail out with their jobs, wage freezes and so on.

 

 

Surely thats just politics though, nothing new. Blame everything on the last lot and hope it sticks.

 

The truth of the matter for me lies in three parts.

 

1. A disasterous banking crisis (without getting into semantics over regulation etc)

 

2. An idealogical decision to vastly increase the public sector.

 

3. An inability over 13 years to tackle some of the massive reforms of the day. Public sector pensions, welfare etc.

 

Labour inherited a fantastic economic boom time and while doing some very good things (as you can when times are good), also dodged a lot of the big decisions that this lot are now taking, supported it must be said by all sides.

 

Some of those were Labours fault, some wern't but hey thats politics.

 

Did anyone of the Labour benches get up and compliment the coalition on some of the great things that were announced today?

 

Is Jeremy Paxton going to focus on any of the good stuff tonight?

 

Overall, given the job that had to be done, I think today was a spectacular achievement that has put this country on the right path. (And before the usual suspects jump in that does not mean that I am happy about any cuts or job losses).

 

Our over reliance on the financial and wervice sectors are in main due to the Tories decimation of our industrial base in the 80's. That my dear is a FACT.

 

I'll not pretend to be competent, never mind an expert talking about those times, however how you could have prevented the unstoppable march to the cheap wages of the East is beyond me. If it was simply down to the Tories why didnt Labour redress it during their 13 years.

 

How did Germany do it?

 

 

Much easier to quote what they did and how and then explain why Labour didnt do it, no?

 

They concertrated on quality and innovation and are currently the only Euro country with a trade surplus. What they didn't do which the Tories did was give up and try and compete against the far east with the bargain basement stuff. The also didn't start portrraying workers as the enemy or greedy or unreasonable, the worked with them to develop excellent chemical industry, car industry, and hi tech and engineering products. In England of course we did the opposite, Thatcher started a war with the workers. i'vve read through some fo this thread and although I detect a lot of passion and energy, you really are very poorly informed, regurgitating the worst kind of nonsense.

 

 

So what do you think were the arguments at the start of the miners strike??

 

Ian McGreggor who had modernised by mechanising the steel industry (a great success at the time) was brought in to sort the unprofitable and subsidised coal industry. The miners didnt like the idea of mechanisation because they new it would cost jobs. Rather than have union leaders who could see the way the world was going and accept change was neccesary, they decided instead to strike. (Lets not forget they had already brought down the Heath government in 74).

 

The rest as they say is history.

[Renton 22007]

Well that's one interpretation.

[Christmas Tree 4847]

How the spending review hit the poorest hardest, http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-stag...-poorest-income

 

 

George Osborne made the audacious boast that those "with the most, will pay the most".

 

The Treasury graph below shows that, as a percentage of net income, the poorest 10 per cent pay more than every other group, with the exception of the richest 10 per cent.

 

Fucking Hell

 

So George was right then

[Christmas Tree 4847]

Well that's one interpretation.

 

 

Before your time I guess better google it

[NJS 4411]

So what do you think were the arguments at the start of the miners strike??

 

Ian McGreggor who had modernised by mechanising the steel industry (a great success at the time) was brought in to sort the unprofitable and subsidised coal industry. The miners didnt like the idea of mechanisation because they new it would cost jobs. Rather than have union leaders who could see the way the world was going and accept change was neccesary, they decided instead to strike. (Lets not forget they had already brought down the Heath government in 74).

 

The rest as they say is history.

 

Absolutely fuck all to do with mechanisation and the decimation of the Steel industry was only a success in terms of a tiny surviving part of it at the cost of entire towns killed.

 

I don't understand how someone from Shields and living 20 miles from Consett could be so ignorant.

[Dr Gloom 22182]

these cuts are too quick, too deep and too aggressive. i don't get why the coaltion is obsessed with cutting the entire deficit in one fell swoop.

 

recession part II, coming to a neighbourhood near you.....

[Renton 22007]

How the spending review hit the poorest hardest, http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-stag...-poorest-income

 

 

George Osborne made the audacious boast that those "with the most, will pay the most".

 

The Treasury graph below shows that, as a percentage of net income, the poorest 10 per cent pay more than every other group, with the exception of the richest 10 per cent.

 

Fucking Hell

 

So George was right then

 

Don't forget too, that the poorest, who have to carefully balance food and heating costs, can afford these losses far less than the richest.

 

Diminishing marginal utility of wealth CT. The rich won't be affected by this anywhere near as much as the poor.

[manc-mag 1]

Bridget has just been on Look North, hair much better now she can afford a decent cut.

 

Been in contact with her the last couple nights; working late in the Commons both nights apparently what with one vote or another taking place, so she's earning her coin!

 

I'll be sure to pass on your kind words, Vidal Sassoon!

[Park Life 71]

these cuts are too quick, too deep and too aggressive. i don't get why the coaltion is obsessed with cutting the entire deficit in one fell swoop.

 

recession part II, coming to a neighbourhood near you.....

 

Cause the markets have told them to.

[Christmas Tree 4847]

I don't know how you can make a claim like that, refuse to substantiate it then expect anyone to take you seriously.

 

 

Because its a discussion forum

 

You know as well as I that I could get figures, then you could and so on. I honestly cant be bothered. If im wrong im wrong but my belief over the last 13 years is that Centralised government grew under Labour and that public money was spunked all over the place. Some of it was good, but a lot was waste.

 

Didnt the welfare bill go up by 50% during Labour. Should it have done during boom times?

 

You then hear stories from PP about thousands of publis sector workers in his department sitting around with nowt to do.

 

Basically governments get lazier and more corrupt the longer they are in power and this government was worse than most because it was crippled by infighting from its second term onwards.

The figures would be at the Office of National Statistics, wouldn't they? I'd accept them. Go and get them and I'll accept it was true. You won't though. In fact provide any credible source.

 

Ok, had my tea and bored so I'll bite, but im not getting into an evening of statistics This little chart from the "office of national statitics", says the public sector grew by nearly a million, 17% during Labours reign.

 

[Christmas Tree 4847]

So what do you think were the arguments at the start of the miners strike??

 

Ian McGreggor who had modernised by mechanising the steel industry (a great success at the time) was brought in to sort the unprofitable and subsidised coal industry. The miners didnt like the idea of mechanisation because they new it would cost jobs. Rather than have union leaders who could see the way the world was going and accept change was neccesary, they decided instead to strike. (Lets not forget they had already brought down the Heath government in 74).

 

The rest as they say is history.

 

Absolutely fuck all to do with mechanisation and the decimation of the Steel industry was only a success in terms of a tiny surviving part of it at the cost of entire towns killed.

 

I don't understand how someone from Shields and living 20 miles from Consett could be so ignorant.

 

 

Suggest you read your history as well. Ofcourse it was going to lead to job cuts.... Thats what happens when you modernise industry and stop subsidising it.

 

How any one with an ounce of sense thinks this country could have continued with uncompetitive, subsidised industries in the face of the rise of the east, amazes me.

[Christmas Tree 4847]

How the spending review hit the poorest hardest, http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-stag...-poorest-income

 

 

George Osborne made the audacious boast that those "with the most, will pay the most".

 

The Treasury graph below shows that, as a percentage of net income, the poorest 10 per cent pay more than every other group, with the exception of the richest 10 per cent.

 

Fucking Hell

 

So George was right then

 

Don't forget too, that the poorest, who have to carefully balance food and heating costs, can afford these losses far less than the richest.

 

Diminishing marginal utility of wealth CT. The rich won't be affected by this anywhere near as much as the poor.

 

They never are, but thats not what the shit rushed off crappy journalism said.

[Dr Gloom 22182]

these cuts are too quick, too deep and too aggressive. i don't get why the coaltion is obsessed with cutting the entire deficit in one fell swoop.

 

recession part II, coming to a neighbourhood near you.....

 

Cause the markets have told them to.

 

the markets won't love a double dip, which looks a lot more likely now. obviously the deficit has to be cut. but the speed of the cuts is worrying for our growth prospects.

[Billy Castell 0]

It just occured to me, GeorgeOsbourne's voice really sounds like Fletcher-Dervish from The New Statesman.