Politics

[Rayvin 5176]

7 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

Well I know you wouldn’t choose it but there are many Labour MP’s who are naturally closer to conservative policy than Corbyn / Mcdonell. 

 

I suppose its all the grass root root machinery that really scuppers it.

 

So you think they would choose a Tory victory? Would just confirm everything that has been said really.

[Christmas Tree 4685]

35 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

So you think they would choose a Tory victory? Would just confirm everything that has been said really.

 

 dear me.

 

Its called putting their principles first. Maybe read up on the politics of 81 when the SDP was formed (last time Labour went way left).

 

sometimes it’s about the longer game and not just the next 5 year cycle. 

[ewerk 30249]

1 hour ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

I think there’s a lot of people caught between the two. 

 

I like some leftish policies but I wouldn’t want the whole fruit basket (IMO) that comes with them.

 

As always with most politicians I presume the centrists are too worried about their jobs to go it alone. It’s got to come soon though.

What policies in the fruit basket do you disagree with?

[Rayvin 5176]

30 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

 dear me.

 

Its called putting their principles first. Maybe read up on the politics of 81 when the SDP was formed (last time Labour went way left).

 

sometimes it’s about the longer game and not just the next 5 year cycle. 

 

Yeah i dont think any if them think that way after what we saw with Brexit.

 

Corbyn was opposed by the centre left on the basis that he was unelectable, not because of his policies. So they would look like massive hypocrites now to change that.

[Renton 21276]

31 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

 dear me.

 

Its called putting their principles first. Maybe read up on the politics of 81 when the SDP was formed (last time Labour went way left).

 

sometimes it’s about the longer game and not just the next 5 year cycle. 

 

The SDP was a disasteril for labour and the political lives of those involved. It helped lead to a decade of Thatcherism and nearly another decade of Majorism. What's your point because you appear to have contradicted yourself. Again. 

[Alex 34822]

Aye. No idea what that example is meant to demonstrate  

[Christmas Tree 4685]

17 hours ago, ewerk said:

What policies in the fruit basket do you disagree with?

 

Overall its the duplicity with which virtually a cure is promised for every ill when we all know (when we are not being partisan) that Labour really couldn't afford everything they've promised. I think there's a lot of stuff they want to privatise that wouldn't make things better. I also am not convinced that borrowing 250 billion is a sensible move or that McDonnel is the financial genius to oversee it.

 

I would like to see a serious solution for social care and privatization of the buses. I think we just need to be honest that we have to raise taxes to do it.

[Christmas Tree 4685]

17 hours ago, Renton said:

 

The SDP was a disasteril for labour and the political lives of those involved. It helped lead to a decade of Thatcherism and nearly another decade of Majorism. What's your point because you appear to have contradicted yourself. Again. 

 

My point was quite simple I am just surprised that a centrist left movement isn't building. After the mass resignations against Corbyn I could understand them keeping their heads down and hoping it would swing back, but now with momentum controlling everything there is little chance of that happening.

[ewerk 30249]

11 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

Overall its the duplicity with which virtually a cure is promised for every ill when we all know (when we are not being partisan) that Labour really couldn't afford everything they've promised.

 How can you possibly say that while supporting Brexit?

And you agree with tax rises to pay for public services yet are in favour of a Tory government that has continually cut taxes?

[Christmas Tree 4685]

8 minutes ago, ewerk said:

 How can you possibly say that while supporting Brexit?

And you agree with tax rises to pay for public services yet are in favour of a Tory government that has continually cut taxes?

 

1. Cos Brexit is going to be GRRRRREAT

2. Because their is no credible alternative to a the conservatives.

 

And I'm fairly confident from your various contributions over the years that you are a lot closer to centre right than hard left.

[Rayvin 5176]

You just want the left split. Thats all it will achieve and you know it. There is no viable way for the centre left to get back into this before the next election. Afterwards sure, beforehand, no. The Tories fucked up so hard last time out that they legitimised Corbyn for an entire term. If you dont like what the Tories are doing now, you only have yourself to blame though. You had the chance to vote centre left in the past and didnt. Dont blame the left because we got sick of waiting.

 

And Labour did talk about tax rises so i dont know why you think they lacked honesty in that.

[Christmas Tree 4685]

24 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

You just want the left split. Thats all it will achieve and you know it. There is no viable way for the centre left to get back into this before the next election. Afterwards sure, beforehand, no. The Tories fucked up so hard last time out that they legitimised Corbyn for an entire term. If you dont like what the Tories are doing now, you only have yourself to blame though. You had the chance to vote centre left in the past and didnt. Dont blame the left because we got sick of waiting.

 

And Labour did talk about tax rises so i dont know why you think they lacked honesty in that.

 

Calm down man

 

It was basically a random post about the future of centre left politics not some dastardly plan to get rid of Corbyn.

 

Im not sure how the centre could come back after the next election given momentum’s utter dominance of grass roots and NEC.

 

As for the Tories, very few voters agree with a 100% of what the party they voted for does.

 

Peace

[Alex 34822]

1 hour ago, Rayvin said:

You just want the left split. Thats all it will achieve and you know it. There is no viable way for the centre left to get back into this before the next election. Afterwards sure, beforehand, no. The Tories fucked up so hard last time out that they legitimised Corbyn for an entire term. If you dont like what the Tories are doing now, you only have yourself to blame though. You had the chance to vote centre left in the past and didnt. Dont blame the left because we got sick of waiting.

 

And Labour did talk about tax rises so i dont know why you think they lacked honesty in that.

Absolutely destroyed him there

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

Has May implemented any of those 'win back the youth vote' policies she campaigned on yet? 

[ewerk 30249]

2 hours ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

1. Cos Brexit is going to be GRRRRREAT

2. Because their is no credible alternative to a the conservatives.

 

And I'm fairly confident from your various contributions over the years that you are a lot closer to centre right than hard left.

It’s okay, we’ll give you an opportunity now to admit your doubts about Brexit and the lies you’ve been told. Cleverer men than you have been fooled.

I did start out centre right but have moved to the left over the years. Changing your political outlook isn’t a sign of weakness.  

[Christmas Tree 4685]

1 hour ago, Alex said:

Absolutely destroyed him there

 

How old are you

[Rayvin 5176]

38 minutes ago, ewerk said:

It’s okay, we’ll give you an opportunity now to admit your doubts about Brexit and the lies you’ve been told. Cleverer men than you have been fooled.

I did start out centre right but have moved to the left over the years. Changing your political outlook isn’t a sign of weakness.  

 

I did this also.

[ewerk 30249]

Yeah but I’ve stayed centre left. You’ve gone full retard.

[Rayvin 5176]

As I keep saying, I'm a centrist. Just don't believe the centre stands a chance without swinging hard right or left first. Prefer left.

[ewerk 30249]

You want a Marxist utopia.

[Rayvin 5176]

I could find an example of me saying I prefer a centrist vision, as I know I've said as much in the past week, but you already know this so it would be wasted effort

[ewerk 30249]

On 08/05/2017 at 09:22, Rayvin said:

 

Agreed, it probably can. That's what I feel like I'm voting for. What we have on offer at the moment though, and indeed at the previous GE, was/is something that the majority wouldn't vote for.

 

Actually, I think our whole disagreement can be boiled down to the following: We want ultimately the same basic thing, which you think the Blairite centre left can provide, and I don't (based solely on the fact that they're culpable in bringing us to this point). That genuinely seems to be our only point of contention.

 

I have offered a solution btw, I 'suggested' communism as it is the only system that is fair to the people.

In your own words.

[Rayvin 5176]

1 hour ago, ewerk said:

In your own words.

 

You're confusing a solution to a particular problem with something I personally desire. 

[Renton 21276]

I used to be a full on Nazi, wanted blacks and Jews put in gas chambers etc. Then I swung to being a full on communist in the Stalin mode. Then I became an extreme feminist and thought we should all become transgender. Then Tony Blair came along and I joined the centre left FOREVER. 

Edited March 11, 2018 by Renton

[Christmas Tree 4685]

Corbyn disgusting tonight trying to score political points in response to PM’s statement on Russian nerve attack. Rightly taken to task by his own MP’s.