Politics

[Renton 21228]

I bet CT's kids are too old to get it now btw.

 

Wrong again

 

Do you break the £44k threshold though?

 

 

Cant really take anyone srious on this issue who doesnt at least see this as a very good first move. Well off people dont need benefits.

 

What about those with a household income of 80k?

 

 

Thats why I said "first move".

 

Lets look at the facts.

 

85% of people currently receiving child benefit wont be affected by this. of the ones who are, there will be some oddities as you describe. These will be miniscule.

 

To make this change problem free you would then have to start means testing every family, filling in forms, more wasted in pen pushing than would probably be saved. I would rather see the 1 billion saving than get all heated up over the few exceptions.

 

You have similar oddities in most current tax systems now.

 

Hopefully this is just the sort of thing that will be tidied up when the single benefit comes in.

 

I can see this being really painful for single-earning familes with several kids tbh, I don't think the 'oddities will be miniscule' either. Easy to applaud it when it doesn't affect you though (assuming you don't declare wages in excess of £44k). This is going to piss off a lot of Conservative voters actually, so in a way I applaud Cameron for being brave.

 

 

You absolute tit, it only effects people paying higher rate tax!!!!!

 

Yes you have a legal eagle wife and a cushy public sector job so some "poor bint" on plus £45,000 will probably seem hard done by to you

 

Go and tell your little sob story to the majority who are on piss poor wages and see how much sympathy you get. Fucking astounding!

 

Cameron could get up tomorrow and announce he had cured cancer and your response would simply be "What about the blind, he's done fuck all for the blind.

 

You are an absolute tool of the highest order

 

Well done for getting personal again you complete bell end. This is coming from a man who claims he can easily clear 70k driving a private hire cab for anyone who missed that particular claim.

 

If you bothered reading what I said I didn't comment on whether this policy was right or wrong, I commented on the fact that it would really hurt a particular demographic, and these would mainly be Conservative voters. I was being serious when I said it was a brave policy for Cameron to roll out. I actually agree that universal benefits of all kinds need to be reduced or even stopped - including cold weather payments. I just think this should be done more fairly, and you know what, so do a lot of Conservatives and half the right wing press.

[Renton 21228]

the basic family child allowance is something like £22 a week isn't it?

I'd like to hope on 44k a year i could afford to lose £90 a month, i don't see how it would effect someone on that kind of wage, even if they had to adjust what does it mean? they drive a more economical car instead of a bmw.

 

Women on the radio this morning (whoever is standing in for evans on radio2) was whinging about how if your on "44k a year it doesn't make you rich living in a city like london" which may will be true but it hardly makes you poor...think it's a case of not being used to having to watch money.

 

I effectively doubled my annual wage not so long ago, and i can safely say the only difference between then and now as far as watching my money goes is I buy shinier crap, and if i lost £100 a month somehow i'd handle it if needs be(and no i'm not on 44k)

 

edit> as much as i agree with benefits for the high tax bracket crowd being reeled in the implementation of this one is moronic.

 

I assume you're single with no dependents Ant? Imagine you were a family with four kids with one wage earner who was just over the bracket. Are you seriously saying that the loss of several thousand pounds a year wouldn't hurt? People in that situation don't waste their money on shiny crap in my experience. Now this is along with your salary probably being frozen, loss of tax credits, increasing inflationary pressures on essentials, and VAT going up to 20% etc. Then if you compare yourself to your friends who earn £80k combined and keep the benefit you're going to be fairly pissed, I'd imagine.

 

The tories have got themselves in a mess over this, expect some frantic back pedalling. They also said child benefit would be untouched as well btw before the election.

[shackbleep 0]

A poll suggests that 83% of voters support the Tories' decision to cut child benefit for higher earners.

 

No prizes for guessing which fucking rag run this poll....

[Monkeys Fist 42001]

Tis only the beginning.

This is the gentle slap, preparing the ground for the almighty kick in the jewels to come.

" Look, we've even targeted our own support, so the plebs can't complain"

[AgentAxeman 169]

I think its a good idea!

 

 

lets face it, how many on here earn more than 44k each?

[Christmas Tree 4679]

I bet CT's kids are too old to get it now btw.

 

Wrong again

 

Do you break the £44k threshold though?

 

 

Cant really take anyone srious on this issue who doesnt at least see this as a very good first move. Well off people dont need benefits.

 

What about those with a household income of 80k?

 

 

Thats why I said "first move".

 

Lets look at the facts.

 

85% of people currently receiving child benefit wont be affected by this. of the ones who are, there will be some oddities as you describe. These will be miniscule.

 

To make this change problem free you would then have to start means testing every family, filling in forms, more wasted in pen pushing than would probably be saved. I would rather see the 1 billion saving than get all heated up over the few exceptions.

 

You have similar oddities in most current tax systems now.

 

Hopefully this is just the sort of thing that will be tidied up when the single benefit comes in.

 

I can see this being really painful for single-earning familes with several kids tbh, I don't think the 'oddities will be miniscule' either. Easy to applaud it when it doesn't affect you though (assuming you don't declare wages in excess of £44k). This is going to piss off a lot of Conservative voters actually, so in a way I applaud Cameron for being brave.

 

 

You absolute tit, it only effects people paying higher rate tax!!!!!

 

Yes you have a legal eagle wife and a cushy public sector job so some "poor bint" on plus £45,000 will probably seem hard done by to you

 

Go and tell your little sob story to the majority who are on piss poor wages and see how much sympathy you get. Fucking astounding!

 

Cameron could get up tomorrow and announce he had cured cancer and your response would simply be "What about the blind, he's done fuck all for the blind.

 

You are an absolute tool of the highest order

 

Well done for getting personal again you complete bell end. This is coming from a man who claims he can easily clear 70k driving a private hire cab for anyone who missed that particular claim.

 

If you bothered reading what I said I didn't comment on whether this policy was right or wrong, I commented on the fact that it would really hurt a particular demographic, and these would mainly be Conservative voters. I was being serious when I said it was a brave policy for Cameron to roll out. I actually agree that universal benefits of all kinds need to be reduced or even stopped - including cold weather payments. I just think this should be done more fairly, and you know what, so do a lot of Conservatives and half the right wing press.

 

You commented that someone earning in excess of £45,000 a year would find it really painful to lose child benefit. You are detatched from the real world if this is your idea of real pain. It is that simple.

[Christmas Tree 4679]

A poll suggests that 83% of voters support the Tories' decision to cut child benefit for higher earners.

 

No prizes for guessing which fucking rag run this poll....

 

 

YouGov as it happens quite serious pollsters and all that

 

The problem a few on here are discovering, like Labour, is that they are totally out of touch with how people are feeling in the real world.

 

Nobody is looking forward to cuts, but the majority no whose shift this went South on and dont believe a word Labour has to say on this matter. Labours credability is shot and will take a long time to recover.

[Renton 21228]

I bet CT's kids are too old to get it now btw.

 

Wrong again

 

Do you break the £44k threshold though?

 

 

Cant really take anyone srious on this issue who doesnt at least see this as a very good first move. Well off people dont need benefits.

 

What about those with a household income of 80k?

 

 

Thats why I said "first move".

 

Lets look at the facts.

 

85% of people currently receiving child benefit wont be affected by this. of the ones who are, there will be some oddities as you describe. These will be miniscule.

 

To make this change problem free you would then have to start means testing every family, filling in forms, more wasted in pen pushing than would probably be saved. I would rather see the 1 billion saving than get all heated up over the few exceptions.

 

You have similar oddities in most current tax systems now.

 

Hopefully this is just the sort of thing that will be tidied up when the single benefit comes in.

 

I can see this being really painful for single-earning familes with several kids tbh, I don't think the 'oddities will be miniscule' either. Easy to applaud it when it doesn't affect you though (assuming you don't declare wages in excess of £44k). This is going to piss off a lot of Conservative voters actually, so in a way I applaud Cameron for being brave.

 

 

You absolute tit, it only effects people paying higher rate tax!!!!!

 

Yes you have a legal eagle wife and a cushy public sector job so some "poor bint" on plus £45,000 will probably seem hard done by to you

 

Go and tell your little sob story to the majority who are on piss poor wages and see how much sympathy you get. Fucking astounding!

 

Cameron could get up tomorrow and announce he had cured cancer and your response would simply be "What about the blind, he's done fuck all for the blind.

 

You are an absolute tool of the highest order

 

Well done for getting personal again you complete bell end. This is coming from a man who claims he can easily clear 70k driving a private hire cab for anyone who missed that particular claim.

 

If you bothered reading what I said I didn't comment on whether this policy was right or wrong, I commented on the fact that it would really hurt a particular demographic, and these would mainly be Conservative voters. I was being serious when I said it was a brave policy for Cameron to roll out. I actually agree that universal benefits of all kinds need to be reduced or even stopped - including cold weather payments. I just think this should be done more fairly, and you know what, so do a lot of Conservatives and half the right wing press.

 

You commented that someone earning in excess of £45,000 a year would find it really painful to lose child benefit. You are detatched from the real world if this is your idea of real pain. It is that simple.

 

For families with a lot of children depending on one wage earner on £44k of course it will hurt, and the way it's being applied is basically not fair. End of. If taxi drivers easily earn more than this threshold in the NE let alone London then I would say lots of people would be affected, wouldn't you? Or was that an example of you bullshitting? If so, who is detached from reality here, me or 'Mr Cameron is the best MP of my life time'.

 

I see now that Cameron is now suggesting there will be additional tax benefits made available to married couples to balance out their loss in child benefit. Trouble is its already been worked out this will cost more than the original savings made by cutting child benefit. Genius. If that's me having another unfair go at Cameron then you can blame just about every media outlet for doing the same thing btw.

[Christmas Tree 4679]

Tis only the beginning.

This is the gentle slap, preparing the ground for the almighty kick in the jewels to come.

" Look, we've even targeted our own support, so the plebs can't complain"

 

 

This is the crux of the debate on here.

 

There are those that simply think this is the nasty evil tory party out to fuck people over.

 

Then there are those who think the Tories under Cameron are a pretty decent lot and are really trying to get the country sorted out.

 

Neither side will convince the other.

 

However anyone who heard Ian Duncan Smiths's speech today cant help but have been moved by his unyielding honesty and desire to sort out the welfare system.

 

Putting aside the cuts, which are unavoidable, I think the only ones who need fear under this government are the benefit system players and those responsible for waste in the public sector.

[Monkeys Fist 42001]

Tis only the beginning.

This is the gentle slap, preparing the ground for the almighty kick in the jewels to come.

" Look, we've even targeted our own support, so the plebs can't complain"

 

 

This is the crux of the debate on here.

 

There are those that simply think this is the nasty evil tory party out to fuck people over. the majority on here

Then there are those who think the Tories under Cameron are a pretty decent lot and are really trying to get the country sorted out.you

 

Neither side will convince the other.

 

However anyone who heard Ian Duncan Smiths's speech today cant help but have been moved by his unyielding honesty and desire to sort out the welfare system.

 

Putting aside the cuts, which are unavoidable, I think the only ones who need fear under this government are the benefit system players and those responsible for waste in the public sector.yeah, lets put aside the cuts eh, then everythings rosy.

ffs man, its all about the cuts

[manc-mag 1]

CT...slightly off topic here but you frequently have some of the most baffling spelling I've ever seen. Baffling mainly in that it's perfect English in one post and then all over the shop in the next. I dont think I've never seen that sort of output before.

[Christmas Tree 4679]

Tis only the beginning.

This is the gentle slap, preparing the ground for the almighty kick in the jewels to come.

" Look, we've even targeted our own support, so the plebs can't complain"

 

 

This is the crux of the debate on here.

 

There are those that simply think this is the nasty evil tory party out to fuck people over. the majority on here

Then there are those who think the Tories under Cameron are a pretty decent lot and are really trying to get the country sorted out.you

 

Neither side will convince the other.

 

However anyone who heard Ian Duncan Smiths's speech today cant help but have been moved by his unyielding honesty and desire to sort out the welfare system.

 

Putting aside the cuts, which are unavoidable, I think the only ones who need fear under this government are the benefit system players and those responsible for waste in the public sector.yeah, lets put aside the cuts eh, then everythings rosy.

ffs man, its all about the cuts

 

The cuts were going to come whoever was in power. Even Red Ed is saying that he would have simply delayed them for a few years. Can you imagine Labour after 3 years in power and on the run in to a general election suddenly deciding the time was right to take the right action. Ofcourse not, they would have simply fudged and put it off again, all the while dragging the country even further down the shitter.

 

From a political point of view, the only time any party in power could take this action is at the start of their term in office. This at least gives that party the chance to reap the benefit of the action taken.

 

The fact that the "majority" on here are anti tory is meaningless tbf. There are quite a few young uns, who know little of the world, quite a few of the Guardian brigade like Renton and others like NJS, Alex and possible yourself who have and always will hate the Tories.

 

There are quite a few older wiser members on here who are not as entrenched in their views.

[Christmas Tree 4679]

CT...slightly off topic here but you frequently have some of the most baffling spelling I've ever seen. Baffling mainly in that it's perfect English in one post and then all over the shop in the next. I dont think I've never seen that sort of output before.

 

It depends which one of us is typing

[Christmas Tree 4679]

CT...slightly off topic here but you frequently have some of the most baffling spelling I've ever seen. Baffling mainly in that it's perfect English in one post and then all over the shop in the next. I dont think I've never seen that sort of output before.

 

Im generelly very pour at speling so that comant has cheared me well up.

[manc-mag 1]

Wasn't having a go btw, I just don't think I've ever seen that sort of Jeckyll and Hyde quality before on here.

[Monkeys Fist 42001]

Tis only the beginning.

This is the gentle slap, preparing the ground for the almighty kick in the jewels to come.

" Look, we've even targeted our own support, so the plebs can't complain"

 

 

This is the crux of the debate on here.

 

There are those that simply think this is the nasty evil tory party out to fuck people over. the majority on here

Then there are those who think the Tories under Cameron are a pretty decent lot and are really trying to get the country sorted out.you

 

Neither side will convince the other.

 

However anyone who heard Ian Duncan Smiths's speech today cant help but have been moved by his unyielding honesty and desire to sort out the welfare system.

 

Putting aside the cuts, which are unavoidable, I think the only ones who need fear under this government are the benefit system players and those responsible for waste in the public sector.yeah, lets put aside the cuts eh, then everythings rosy.

ffs man, its all about the cuts

 

The cuts were going to come whoever was in power. Even Red Ed is saying that he would have simply delayed them for a few years. Can you imagine Labour after 3 years in power and on the run in to a general election suddenly deciding the time was right to take the right action. Ofcourse not, they would have simply fudged and put it off again, all the while dragging the country even further down the shitter.

 

From a political point of view, the only time any party in power could take this action is at the start of their term in office. This at least gives that party the chance to reap the benefit of the action taken.

 

The fact that the "majority" on here are anti tory is meaningless tbf. There are quite a few young uns, who know little of the world, quite a few of the Guardian brigade like Renton and others like NJS, Alex and possible yourself who have and always will hate the Tories.

 

There are quite a few older wiser members on here who are not as entrenched in their views.

Patronised by a cabby, oh me oh my

 

So, since you are old, wise and not at all entrenched in your views, you'll admit that Normal Dave lied outright when they said before the election they would not touch child benefit

The best PM of your lifetime is a dirty fibber

Correct?

[Renton 21228]

I think the only ones who need fear under this government are the benefit system players and those responsible for waste in the public sector.

 

The suggestion there to me is that the only people who will lose their jobs are those repsonsible for public sector waste? If that's what you mean it's quite obnoxious tbh.

 

There are quite a few older wiser members on here who are not as entrenched in their views.

 

You being one of them, I assume? You, who has admitted on this thread that you were a 'dyed in the wool tory', danced around like a child when the tories 'won' the election, and now thinks Cameron is the best PM in modern history after less than 6 months of office? I find your lack or self awareness utterly bizarre. I know my beliefs and allegiances, I don't hide it. I am aware that I will find it hard to judge Cameron fairly. You, however, seem to really believe you can judge 'Red Ed' fairly (the use of that perjorative tabloid name itself is a giveaway to your political intellect btw). Staggering.

 

P.S. I read the Times occasionally, not the Guardian, which incidentally did not support Labour in any case.

[Christmas Tree 4679]

Tis only the beginning.

This is the gentle slap, preparing the ground for the almighty kick in the jewels to come.

" Look, we've even targeted our own support, so the plebs can't complain"

 

 

This is the crux of the debate on here.

 

There are those that simply think this is the nasty evil tory party out to fuck people over. the majority on here

Then there are those who think the Tories under Cameron are a pretty decent lot and are really trying to get the country sorted out.you

 

Neither side will convince the other.

 

However anyone who heard Ian Duncan Smiths's speech today cant help but have been moved by his unyielding honesty and desire to sort out the welfare system.

 

Putting aside the cuts, which are unavoidable, I think the only ones who need fear under this government are the benefit system players and those responsible for waste in the public sector.yeah, lets put aside the cuts eh, then everythings rosy.

ffs man, its all about the cuts

 

The cuts were going to come whoever was in power. Even Red Ed is saying that he would have simply delayed them for a few years. Can you imagine Labour after 3 years in power and on the run in to a general election suddenly deciding the time was right to take the right action. Ofcourse not, they would have simply fudged and put it off again, all the while dragging the country even further down the shitter.

 

From a political point of view, the only time any party in power could take this action is at the start of their term in office. This at least gives that party the chance to reap the benefit of the action taken.

 

The fact that the "majority" on here are anti tory is meaningless tbf. There are quite a few young uns, who know little of the world, quite a few of the Guardian brigade like Renton and others like NJS, Alex and possible yourself who have and always will hate the Tories.

 

There are quite a few older wiser members on here who are not as entrenched in their views.

Patronised by a cabby, oh me oh my

 

So, since you are old, wise and not at all entrenched in your views, you'll admit that Normal Dave lied outright when they said before the election they would not touch child benefit

The best PM of your lifetime is a dirty fibber

Correct?

 

 

Im not sure he did say that?

 

I do however remember him saying their would be cuts and that the exact cuts would be worked out when they took over from Labour.

 

Think the Tories were the only honest party about cuts at the election.

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

. I know my beliefs and allegiances, I don't hide it.

 

Yeah what are you again, a socialist who uses BUPA?

[Renton 21228]

. I know my beliefs and allegiances, I don't hide it.

 

Yeah what are you again, a socialist who uses BUPA?

 

Eh?

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

There was a thread on here a short while ago where someone was going on about being torn between their ideological belief in a NHS and using the services of BUPA, they ended up using BUPA.

Edited October 5, 2010 by Kevin S. Assilleekunt

[manc-mag 1]

There was a thread on here a short while ago where someone was going on about being torn between their ideological belief in a NHS and using the services of BUPA, they ended up using BUPA.

 

NJS iirc.

[Meenzer 15365]

I'm sorry, that was just a noise

[Renton 21228]

There was a thread on here a short while ago where someone was going on about being torn between their ideological belief in a NHS and using the services of BUPA, they ended up using BUPA.

 

Wasn't me like, never used BUPA in my life and don't intend to start. I've used the NHS loads and have never had fault with it.

 

I remember NJS saying he'd refused to take his work's coverage with BUPA and amazed he was criticised for that.

[manc-mag 1]

There was a thread on here a short while ago where someone was going on about being torn between their ideological belief in a NHS and using the services of BUPA, they ended up using BUPA.

 

NJS iirc.

 

I stand corrected said the man in the orthopedic shoes.