Politics

[Renton 21614]

Massive fuck up by Gideon this morning IMO with regards Child Benefit.

 

A one income family earning £44K will no longer qualify for Child Benefit whereas 2 people each earning £43K a year therefore taking home £86K will?!?!

 

Makes fuck all sense that like...

 

Seems a very bizarre thing to do.

 

Must say I am pleased that at long last someone is starting to do something about these ridiculous universal benefits.

 

Pretty sure earlier on this thread you claimed child benefit wouldn't be cut by this government.

 

Absolutely astounding cock up by Gideon as Shackbleep has pointed out. You could have a family where the father earns £45k with a stay at home mother and 4 kids losing thousands of pounds in benefits. Yet if both couples worked and earned £80k between them they would keep the benefits. Can't see that being a vote winner somehow. Gideon said on the radio it was just simpler to do things this way rather than introduce proper means testing. Maybe so but it is also totally illogical and unfair. Still, who gives a shit about that as long as we can cut back on 'pen pushers', eh?

[shackbleep 0]

Massive fuck up by Gideon this morning IMO with regards Child Benefit.

 

A one income family earning £44K will no longer qualify for Child Benefit whereas 2 people each earning £43K a year therefore taking home £86K will?!?!

 

Makes fuck all sense that like...

 

Seems a very bizarre thing to do.

 

Must say I am pleased that at long last someone is starting to do something about these ridiculous universal benefits.

 

Pretty sure earlier on this thread you claimed child benefit wouldn't be cut by this government.

 

Absolutely astounding cock up by Gideon as Shackbleep has pointed out. You could have a family where the father earns £45k with a stay at home mother and 4 kids losing thousands of pounds in benefits. Yet if both couples worked and earned £80k between them they would keep the benefits. Can't see that being a vote winner somehow. Gideon said on the radio it was just simpler to do things this way rather than introduce proper means testing. Maybe so but it is also totally illogical and unfair. Still, who gives a shit about that as long as we can cut back on 'pen pushers', eh?

 

Fuck simpler, surely doing it 'correct' is the best way forward?

 

His attempts to justify this utter fucking disaster of a policy are making him look a bigger dickhead than he already is.

[Renton 21614]

Your wrong about the BMA. Suggest you actually read what they are saying about most of the reforms.

 

Wrong again about my knowledge of PCT's

 

The fact a Labour government introduced walk in centres is irrelevant, unlike you there are lots of things Labour did that I appreciate not being so glimmered.

 

I had forgotten how childish you can be

 

Only you could claim the BMA is being supportive of the reforms.

 

NHS reform is a 'slash and burn' approach say Doctors' union.

 

What exactly is your knowledge of PCTs then?

 

How is it irrelevant to the discussion if Labout introduced walk-centres that you value and the Conservatives scrap them?

 

As for childish, claiming Cameron is the best PM during your life time is beyond infantile.

[shackbleep 0]

Your wrong about the BMA.

 

Dear god...

[Guest alex]

CT reminds me of Paul Newman in the boxing scene in Cool Hand Luke in these type of debates.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

Your wrong about the BMA. Suggest you actually read what they are saying about most of the reforms.

 

Wrong again about my knowledge of PCT's

 

The fact a Labour government introduced walk in centres is irrelevant, unlike you there are lots of things Labour did that I appreciate not being so glimmered.

 

I had forgotten how childish you can be

 

Only you could claim the BMA is being supportive of the reforms.

 

NHS reform is a 'slash and burn' approach say Doctors' union.

 

What exactly is your knowledge of PCTs then?

 

How is it irrelevant to the discussion if Labout introduced walk-centres that you value and the Conservatives scrap them?

 

As for childish, claiming Cameron is the best PM during your life time is beyond infantile.

 

Typical Renton smokescreen with a Guardian story thrown in as well.

 

I said the BMA agreed with most of the White paper especially with regard to GP's having more control. What they are complaining about is GP practises having to compete against each other. It really depends what meat is on the bones of this but in general I have no problem with a patient being able to choose to join a different practise if their current one is shit.

 

You also forget that at this stage it is at consultation stage.

 

Even last week when the BMA met it was very divided on the issue with mainly a few commie members being the ones up in arms.

 

I do understand that your bias, along with your job security makes it very difficult for you to be objective.

 

You would come across more believable if you sometimes included the positives as well as the negatives. This after all is what the BMA have done.

[Park Life 71]

Massive fuck up by Gideon this morning IMO with regards Child Benefit.

 

A one income family earning £44K will no longer qualify for Child Benefit whereas 2 people each earning £43K a year therefore taking home £86K will?!?!

 

Makes fuck all sense that like...

 

Seems a very bizarre thing to do.

 

Must say I am pleased that at long last someone is starting to do something about these ridiculous universal benefits.

 

 

It's basic social engineering.

[ChezGiven 0]

Your wrong about the BMA. Suggest you actually read what they are saying about most of the reforms.

 

Wrong again about my knowledge of PCT's

 

The fact a Labour government introduced walk in centres is irrelevant, unlike you there are lots of things Labour did that I appreciate not being so glimmered.

 

I had forgotten how childish you can be

 

Only you could claim the BMA is being supportive of the reforms.

 

NHS reform is a 'slash and burn' approach say Doctors' union.

 

What exactly is your knowledge of PCTs then?

 

How is it irrelevant to the discussion if Labout introduced walk-centres that you value and the Conservatives scrap them?

 

As for childish, claiming Cameron is the best PM during your life time is beyond infantile.

 

Typical Renton smokescreen with a Guardian story thrown in as well.

 

I said the BMA agreed with most of the White paper especially with regard to GP's having more control. What they are complaining about is GP practises having to compete against each other. It really depends what meat is on the bones of this but in general I have no problem with a patient being able to choose to join a different practise if their current one is shit.

 

You also forget that at this stage it is at consultation stage.

 

Even last week when the BMA met it was very divided on the issue with mainly a few commie members being the ones up in arms.

 

I do understand that your bias, along with your job security makes it very difficult for you to be objective.

 

You would come across more believable if you sometimes included the positives as well as the negatives. This after all is what the BMA have done.

Of course GPs are 'happy', they are about to be handed the keys to the NHS, their 'concerns' are 'how the fuck do you run this thing?'.

 

Oh and "GPs happy with being given control" is not a positive in any social policy analysis.

[Sonatine 11374]

CT reminds me of Paul Newman in the boxing scene in Cool Hand Luke in any type of debate.

 

[Renton 21614]

Your wrong about the BMA. Suggest you actually read what they are saying about most of the reforms.

 

Wrong again about my knowledge of PCT's

 

The fact a Labour government introduced walk in centres is irrelevant, unlike you there are lots of things Labour did that I appreciate not being so glimmered.

 

I had forgotten how childish you can be

 

Only you could claim the BMA is being supportive of the reforms.

 

NHS reform is a 'slash and burn' approach say Doctors' union.

 

What exactly is your knowledge of PCTs then?

 

How is it irrelevant to the discussion if Labout introduced walk-centres that you value and the Conservatives scrap them?

 

As for childish, claiming Cameron is the best PM during your life time is beyond infantile.

 

Typical Renton smokescreen with a Guardian story thrown in as well.

 

I said the BMA agreed with most of the White paper especially with regard to GP's having more control. What they are complaining about is GP practises having to compete against each other. It really depends what meat is on the bones of this but in general I have no problem with a patient being able to choose to join a different practise if their current one is shit.

 

You also forget that at this stage it is at consultation stage.

 

Even last week when the BMA met it was very divided on the issue with mainly a few commie members being the ones up in arms.

 

I do understand that your bias, along with your job security makes it very difficult for you to be objective.

 

You would come across more believable if you sometimes included the positives as well as the negatives. This after all is what the BMA have done.

 

The Guardian article is merely reporting what the BMA said, using verbatim quotes. There is nothing out of context there. Also you'd be hard pressed to find many, if any, 'commie' doctors, the majority are very well heeled public school boys and girls and many (most I'd say) are natural conservatives - especially GPs.

 

It's fine you saying you want the right to choose whatever GP practice you want regardless of where you live, but it should be obvious to anyone with a half a brain cell that this isn't really viable, and 'better' practices will have to ration their lists using some method. We can't all have the best doctors. In particular, there is a real concern that practices in city centres will boom with this system as professionals will use them near the places they work. Thus these practices will receive large capitation fees and also inherit a relatively young and healthy patient list - result is the GPs here will be quids in. However, this will also have a detrimental effect on rural practices who will have a dwindling patient list comprised of older, iller, more expensive patients. Practices here will have less money and therefore offer worse services, and very soon you will have a negative spiral with increasing inequity for those who are less mobile. This is just one example of the perversities this free 'market system' might have, there are plenty of other difficulties involved.

 

As for GP commissioning for me personally, it could well bring a lot of work my way as it happens. More than ever GPs will need advice on how to utilise their budgets. But I honestly, fundamentally, don't think it's a good move, I just don't see the benefits you imply there are. At present the NHS spends about 1-2% on management, does this strike you as being particularly excessive for such an enormous and complex organisation? It's be interesting to see how it compares with other similar private sector organisations - very favourably I would imagine. Even the Conservatives have admitted that cutting bureaucracy in the NHS (which as I say I don't think they will achieve) will have a neglible impact on the NHS budget (it's in there in the white paper if you read it fully). Perhaps you might do well to heed the BMA who say 'We urge the government and NHS organisations to focus on those areas where they can truly eliminate waste and achieve genuine efficiency savings rather than adopt a slash-and-burn approach to health care, with arbitrary cuts and poorly considered policies' [verbatim quote, plenty of others if you want them].

[Renton 21614]

Your wrong about the BMA. Suggest you actually read what they are saying about most of the reforms.

 

Wrong again about my knowledge of PCT's

 

The fact a Labour government introduced walk in centres is irrelevant, unlike you there are lots of things Labour did that I appreciate not being so glimmered.

 

I had forgotten how childish you can be

 

Only you could claim the BMA is being supportive of the reforms.

 

NHS reform is a 'slash and burn' approach say Doctors' union.

 

What exactly is your knowledge of PCTs then?

 

How is it irrelevant to the discussion if Labout introduced walk-centres that you value and the Conservatives scrap them?

 

As for childish, claiming Cameron is the best PM during your life time is beyond infantile.

 

Typical Renton smokescreen with a Guardian story thrown in as well.

 

I said the BMA agreed with most of the White paper especially with regard to GP's having more control. What they are complaining about is GP practises having to compete against each other. It really depends what meat is on the bones of this but in general I have no problem with a patient being able to choose to join a different practise if their current one is shit.

 

You also forget that at this stage it is at consultation stage.

 

Even last week when the BMA met it was very divided on the issue with mainly a few commie members being the ones up in arms.

 

I do understand that your bias, along with your job security makes it very difficult for you to be objective.

 

You would come across more believable if you sometimes included the positives as well as the negatives. This after all is what the BMA have done.

Of course GPs are 'happy', they are about to be handed the keys to the NHS, their 'concerns' are 'how the fuck do you run this thing?'.

 

Oh and "GPs happy with being given control" is not a positive in any social policy analysis.

 

The GPs I know who have actually thought about it have shat their pants. They can see themselves being set up as a patsy for the NHS failings.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

Your wrong about the BMA. Suggest you actually read what they are saying about most of the reforms.

 

Wrong again about my knowledge of PCT's

 

The fact a Labour government introduced walk in centres is irrelevant, unlike you there are lots of things Labour did that I appreciate not being so glimmered.

 

I had forgotten how childish you can be

 

Only you could claim the BMA is being supportive of the reforms.

 

NHS reform is a 'slash and burn' approach say Doctors' union.

 

What exactly is your knowledge of PCTs then?

 

How is it irrelevant to the discussion if Labout introduced walk-centres that you value and the Conservatives scrap them?

 

As for childish, claiming Cameron is the best PM during your life time is beyond infantile.

 

Typical Renton smokescreen with a Guardian story thrown in as well.

 

I said the BMA agreed with most of the White paper especially with regard to GP's having more control. What they are complaining about is GP practises having to compete against each other. It really depends what meat is on the bones of this but in general I have no problem with a patient being able to choose to join a different practise if their current one is shit.

 

You also forget that at this stage it is at consultation stage.

 

Even last week when the BMA met it was very divided on the issue with mainly a few commie members being the ones up in arms.

 

I do understand that your bias, along with your job security makes it very difficult for you to be objective.

 

You would come across more believable if you sometimes included the positives as well as the negatives. This after all is what the BMA have done.

 

The Guardian article is merely reporting what the BMA said, using verbatim quotes. There is nothing out of context there. Also you'd be hard pressed to find many, if any, 'commie' doctors, the majority are very well heeled public school boys and girls and many (most I'd say) are natural conservatives - especially GPs.

 

It's fine you saying you want the right to choose whatever GP practice you want regardless of where you live, but it should be obvious to anyone with a half a brain cell that this isn't really viable, and 'better' practices will have to ration their lists using some method. We can't all have the best doctors. In particular, there is a real concern that practices in city centres will boom with this system as professionals will use them near the places they work. Thus these practices will receive large capitation fees and also inherit a relatively young and healthy patient list - result is the GPs here will be quids in. However, this will also have a detrimental effect on rural practices who will have a dwindling patient list comprised of older, iller, more expensive patients. Practices here will have less money and therefore offer worse services, and very soon you will have a negative spiral with increasing inequity for those who are less mobile. This is just one example of the perversities this free 'market system' might have, there are plenty of other difficulties involved.

 

As for GP commissioning for me personally, it could well bring a lot of work my way as it happens. More than ever GPs will need advice on how to utilise their budgets. But I honestly, fundamentally, don't think it's a good move, I just don't see the benefits you imply there are. At present the NHS spends about 1-2% on management, does this strike you as being particularly excessive for such an enormous and complex organisation? It's be interesting to see how it compares with other similar private sector organisations - very favourably I would imagine. Even the Conservatives have admitted that cutting bureaucracy in the NHS (which as I say I don't think they will achieve) will have a neglible impact on the NHS budget (it's in there in the white paper if you read it fully). Perhaps you might do well to heed the BMA who say 'We urge the government and NHS organisations to focus on those areas where they can truly eliminate waste and achieve genuine efficiency savings rather than adopt a slash-and-burn approach to health care, with arbitrary cuts and poorly considered policies' [verbatim quote, plenty of others if you want them].

 

 

The BMA said today it was "interested" in these proposals and the greater efficiencies they could bring".

 

Dr Meldrum said: "There are proposals in the White Paper that doctors can support and want to work with".

 

"The BMA has consistently argued that clinicians should have more autonomy to shape services for patients".

 

Chairman BMA

 

The difference is Renton is that you come at from a purely political viewpoint where as the BMA and my good self come at it from an objective overview. Some things will be better, some things may be worse.

 

Your "everything Conservative is evil" standpoint spoils any chance of serious debate tbh.

[Renton 21614]

Your wrong about the BMA. Suggest you actually read what they are saying about most of the reforms.

 

Wrong again about my knowledge of PCT's

 

The fact a Labour government introduced walk in centres is irrelevant, unlike you there are lots of things Labour did that I appreciate not being so glimmered.

 

I had forgotten how childish you can be

 

Only you could claim the BMA is being supportive of the reforms.

 

NHS reform is a 'slash and burn' approach say Doctors' union.

 

What exactly is your knowledge of PCTs then?

 

How is it irrelevant to the discussion if Labout introduced walk-centres that you value and the Conservatives scrap them?

 

As for childish, claiming Cameron is the best PM during your life time is beyond infantile.

 

Typical Renton smokescreen with a Guardian story thrown in as well.

 

I said the BMA agreed with most of the White paper especially with regard to GP's having more control. What they are complaining about is GP practises having to compete against each other. It really depends what meat is on the bones of this but in general I have no problem with a patient being able to choose to join a different practise if their current one is shit.

 

You also forget that at this stage it is at consultation stage.

 

Even last week when the BMA met it was very divided on the issue with mainly a few commie members being the ones up in arms.

 

I do understand that your bias, along with your job security makes it very difficult for you to be objective.

 

You would come across more believable if you sometimes included the positives as well as the negatives. This after all is what the BMA have done.

 

The Guardian article is merely reporting what the BMA said, using verbatim quotes. There is nothing out of context there. Also you'd be hard pressed to find many, if any, 'commie' doctors, the majority are very well heeled public school boys and girls and many (most I'd say) are natural conservatives - especially GPs.

 

It's fine you saying you want the right to choose whatever GP practice you want regardless of where you live, but it should be obvious to anyone with a half a brain cell that this isn't really viable, and 'better' practices will have to ration their lists using some method. We can't all have the best doctors. In particular, there is a real concern that practices in city centres will boom with this system as professionals will use them near the places they work. Thus these practices will receive large capitation fees and also inherit a relatively young and healthy patient list - result is the GPs here will be quids in. However, this will also have a detrimental effect on rural practices who will have a dwindling patient list comprised of older, iller, more expensive patients. Practices here will have less money and therefore offer worse services, and very soon you will have a negative spiral with increasing inequity for those who are less mobile. This is just one example of the perversities this free 'market system' might have, there are plenty of other difficulties involved.

 

As for GP commissioning for me personally, it could well bring a lot of work my way as it happens. More than ever GPs will need advice on how to utilise their budgets. But I honestly, fundamentally, don't think it's a good move, I just don't see the benefits you imply there are. At present the NHS spends about 1-2% on management, does this strike you as being particularly excessive for such an enormous and complex organisation? It's be interesting to see how it compares with other similar private sector organisations - very favourably I would imagine. Even the Conservatives have admitted that cutting bureaucracy in the NHS (which as I say I don't think they will achieve) will have a neglible impact on the NHS budget (it's in there in the white paper if you read it fully). Perhaps you might do well to heed the BMA who say 'We urge the government and NHS organisations to focus on those areas where they can truly eliminate waste and achieve genuine efficiency savings rather than adopt a slash-and-burn approach to health care, with arbitrary cuts and poorly considered policies' [verbatim quote, plenty of others if you want them].

 

 

The BMA said today it was "interested" in these proposals and the greater efficiencies they could bring".

 

Dr Meldrum said: "There are proposals in the White Paper that doctors can support and want to work with".

 

"The BMA has consistently argued that clinicians should have more autonomy to shape services for patients".

 

Chairman BMA

 

The difference is Renton is that you come at from a purely political viewpoint where as the BMA and my good self come at it from an objective overview. Some things will be better, some things may be worse.

 

Your "everything Conservative is evil" standpoint spoils any chance of serious debate tbh.

 

I'm coming from an elightened viewpoint, you are coming from a position of ignorance. You refuse, or are unable to, answer any of my points, instead choosing to cherry pick out of context quotes using Google as if it counters them. If you look at the BMA statements in its entirety, it is impossible to conclude overall they are favourable and there are not major concerns for the future of the health service under these plans. Look at the headlines even in the tory press if you don't believe me.

 

As for serious debate, you are the one that believes Cameron is the best PM in modern history, and you are the one trying to put ridiculous quotes like 'everything Conservative is evil' into my mouth. Is this your attempt to evade my points, none of which you have addressed? It won't wash with me or the members of this board I'm afraid, you're rightly regarded as a bit of a joke my coniferous friend.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

Your wrong about the BMA. Suggest you actually read what they are saying about most of the reforms.

 

Wrong again about my knowledge of PCT's

 

The fact a Labour government introduced walk in centres is irrelevant, unlike you there are lots of things Labour did that I appreciate not being so glimmered.

 

I had forgotten how childish you can be

 

Only you could claim the BMA is being supportive of the reforms.

 

NHS reform is a 'slash and burn' approach say Doctors' union.

 

What exactly is your knowledge of PCTs then?

 

How is it irrelevant to the discussion if Labout introduced walk-centres that you value and the Conservatives scrap them?

 

As for childish, claiming Cameron is the best PM during your life time is beyond infantile.

 

Typical Renton smokescreen with a Guardian story thrown in as well.

 

I said the BMA agreed with most of the White paper especially with regard to GP's having more control. What they are complaining about is GP practises having to compete against each other. It really depends what meat is on the bones of this but in general I have no problem with a patient being able to choose to join a different practise if their current one is shit.

 

You also forget that at this stage it is at consultation stage.

 

Even last week when the BMA met it was very divided on the issue with mainly a few commie members being the ones up in arms.

 

I do understand that your bias, along with your job security makes it very difficult for you to be objective.

 

You would come across more believable if you sometimes included the positives as well as the negatives. This after all is what the BMA have done.

 

The Guardian article is merely reporting what the BMA said, using verbatim quotes. There is nothing out of context there. Also you'd be hard pressed to find many, if any, 'commie' doctors, the majority are very well heeled public school boys and girls and many (most I'd say) are natural conservatives - especially GPs.

 

It's fine you saying you want the right to choose whatever GP practice you want regardless of where you live, but it should be obvious to anyone with a half a brain cell that this isn't really viable, and 'better' practices will have to ration their lists using some method. We can't all have the best doctors. In particular, there is a real concern that practices in city centres will boom with this system as professionals will use them near the places they work. Thus these practices will receive large capitation fees and also inherit a relatively young and healthy patient list - result is the GPs here will be quids in. However, this will also have a detrimental effect on rural practices who will have a dwindling patient list comprised of older, iller, more expensive patients. Practices here will have less money and therefore offer worse services, and very soon you will have a negative spiral with increasing inequity for those who are less mobile. This is just one example of the perversities this free 'market system' might have, there are plenty of other difficulties involved.

 

As for GP commissioning for me personally, it could well bring a lot of work my way as it happens. More than ever GPs will need advice on how to utilise their budgets. But I honestly, fundamentally, don't think it's a good move, I just don't see the benefits you imply there are. At present the NHS spends about 1-2% on management, does this strike you as being particularly excessive for such an enormous and complex organisation? It's be interesting to see how it compares with other similar private sector organisations - very favourably I would imagine. Even the Conservatives have admitted that cutting bureaucracy in the NHS (which as I say I don't think they will achieve) will have a neglible impact on the NHS budget (it's in there in the white paper if you read it fully). Perhaps you might do well to heed the BMA who say 'We urge the government and NHS organisations to focus on those areas where they can truly eliminate waste and achieve genuine efficiency savings rather than adopt a slash-and-burn approach to health care, with arbitrary cuts and poorly considered policies' [verbatim quote, plenty of others if you want them].

 

 

The BMA said today it was "interested" in these proposals and the greater efficiencies they could bring".

 

Dr Meldrum said: "There are proposals in the White Paper that doctors can support and want to work with".

 

"The BMA has consistently argued that clinicians should have more autonomy to shape services for patients".

 

Chairman BMA

 

The difference is Renton is that you come at from a purely political viewpoint where as the BMA and my good self come at it from an objective overview. Some things will be better, some things may be worse.

 

Your "everything Conservative is evil" standpoint spoils any chance of serious debate tbh.

 

I'm coming from an elightened viewpoint, you are coming from a position of ignorance. You refuse, or are unable to, answer any of my points, instead choosing to cherry pick out of context quotes using Google as if it counters them. If you look at the BMA statements in its entirety, it is impossible to conclude overall they are favourable and there are not major concerns for the future of the health service under these plans. Look at the headlines even in the tory press if you don't believe me.

 

As for serious debate, you are the one that believes Cameron is the best PM in modern history, and you are the one trying to put ridiculous quotes like 'everything Conservative is evil' into my mouth. Is this your attempt to evade my points, none of which you have addressed? It won't wash with me or the members of this board I'm afraid, you're rightly regarded as a bit of a joke my coniferous friend.

 

[NJS 4378]

I seem to remember the the Tories introducing internal markets into the NHS in the 90s - a mate of mine (who was/is a Tory) was living with a nurse at the time and described them via her as disastrous.

 

As far as I know you can choose your GP even now (within reason) - I don't see how introducing the notion of a free market can work - you can see "We do stomach staples for fatties unlike the other lot" type of ads in some sad competetion for patients and hence resources.

 

I and others have already said how the actual aim is to open the door to BUPA etc to "manage" surgeries for GPs leading to further selective care.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

Families on benefits will not be able to claim more than the average working family earns and child benefits will be scrapped for higher earners, the Chancellor has said.

 

George Osborne used his conference speech to defend the Government's economic policies and set out the first of the cuts to benefits.

 

The amount of benefits unemployed families can claim will be capped to make sure that work pays, he said.

 

Unless they have disabilities, families will not receive any more than the average working family earns.

 

The limit will be £500 per family per week after tax and will leave 50,000 families £93 a week worse off on average.

 

I know they are only talking about 50,000 who are over the £500 per week figure but still, you have to wonder why anyone would even contemplate giving that lot up to go and drive a bus or work in a call centre for a lot less.

[Guest alex]

The Ryder Cup's good like, isn't it?

[NJS 4378]

I know they are only talking about 50,000 who are over the £500 per week figure but still, you have to wonder why anyone would even contemplate giving that lot up to go and drive a bus or work in a call centre for a lot less.

 

I have no objection to trying to get people into work and would love it if they could end the "generations of scum" - the problem is I still can't see the neceesary jobs being created in the present climate.

[Renton 21614]

I seem to remember the the Tories introducing internal markets into the NHS in the 90s - a mate of mine (who was/is a Tory) was living with a nurse at the time and described them via her as disastrous.

 

As far as I know you can choose your GP even now (within reason) - I don't see how introducing the notion of a free market can work - you can see "We do stomach staples for fatties unlike the other lot" type of ads in some sad competetion for patients and hence resources.

 

I and others have already said how the actual aim is to open the door to BUPA etc to "manage" surgeries for GPs leading to further selective care.

 

Controlled internal markets in the NHS are arguably a good thing, I have no problem with that. But the key is they have to be controlled.

 

You're spot on that what a patient wants is not necessarily what he needs. If you have someone presenting with morbid obesity, they probably either want the NHS to pay for drugs or surgery, or they want to be reassured. What they don't want, but should get regardless, is a blunt message telling them to get off their lardy arses and exercise, and eat less, or they will die and suffer the indignity in death of having 10 pall bearers. This to me is probably the crux of the whole matter and another reason why the reforms are fundamentally flawed. The other fundamental reason being is that GPs are not competent in making rational decisions for their patients from an economic perspective.

[Renton 21614]

I know they are only talking about 50,000 who are over the £500 per week figure but still, you have to wonder why anyone would even contemplate giving that lot up to go and drive a bus or work in a call centre for a lot less.

 

I have no objection to trying to get people into work and would love it if they could end the "generations of scum" - the problem is I still can't see the neceesary jobs being created in the present climate.

 

Exactly. The jobs just aren't there. No doubt we will have a new Tebbit encouraging Northerners to migrate again.

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

The crackdown on benefits is an emotive topic that gets people going. There is a lot more money being stolen as a result of financial crime, which apparently is relatively easy to get away with if you have no ethics. It's remarkable that Vince Cable is widely derided in the media for attacking the city culture which has been given free reign and helped to get the economy FUBAR.

[Park Life 71]

The crackdown on benefits is an emotive topic that gets people going. There is a lot more money being stolen as a result of financial crime, which apparently is relatively easy to get away with if you have no ethics. It's remarkable that Vince Cable is widely derided in the media for attacking the city culture which has been given free reign and helped to get the economy FUBAR.

 

City own the media innit.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

Brilliantly funny interview between Paxman and Boris on newsnight tonight. Both on really top form and worth a look if you can get to see it.

[Meenzer 15524]

Brilliantly funny interview between Paxman and Boris on newsnight tonight. Both on really top form and worth a look if you can get to see it.

Call it a hunch, but I bet you think Jeremy Clarkson is a visionary and a people's man too.

[NJS 4378]

Brilliantly funny interview between Paxman and Boris on newsnight tonight. Both on really top form and worth a look if you can get to see it.

 

I spotted the deranged fucker on his bike last week heading into Liverpool St station - first "celeb" I've seen in London for ages.