Politics

[Renton 22253]

Surely we can all agree the extra 1500 a year medical places is good?

I'd agree but bear in mind it will take nearly a decade for the benefits to be felt. It's pretty imperative to do this now after Brexit though.

 

Tbf Hammond's been talking some sense. Fox, Davis, and Johnson are cunts and cock knockers though.

[Rayvin 5466]

Aye. Fucking hell he is a stupid cunt. Alienates the next generation of homegrown doctors then announces he plans to curb the number of imported doctors. Sounds like a great plan perfectly executed, Jeremy, you arsehole.

 

I'm guessing he didn't see it coming like. But I'm kind of glad he's in the wars on this one, it's well deserved.

[Christmas Tree 4913]

Dianne James apparently quit as UKIP leader already.

 

Stephen Woolfe should get himself in for it. Was very good on Question Time last week.

[Dr Gloom 22372]

Smart move by May, this. Occupying the centre ground is the perfect response to Labour lurching to the left. Compassionate conservatism, pitched well, will win the next election against a weak and divided opposition. Then once they get into power again they can introduce the typically nastier Tory measures. It's smart politics. If Corbyn had half a clue he'd be trying to do the same.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37556019

[Renton 22253]

Smart move by May, this. Occupying the centre ground is the perfect response to Labour lurching to the left. Compassionate conservatism, pitched well, will win the next election against a weak and divided opposition. Then once they get into power again they can introduce the typically nastier Tory measures. It's smart politics. If Corbyn had half a clue he'd be trying to do the same.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37556019

Yep.

 

Incidentally and a bit o/t, but I strongly recommend listening to the radio 4 podcast "Analysis: breaking promises", especially if you're late generation x or generation y (which 90% of toontastic is). It's a cheery piece about how you're not going to get a pension and how we are returning to an age where your prosperity will be determined by your inheritance rather than your own merit.

[Dr Gloom 22372]

The baby boomers fucked us, basically

[Rayvin 5466]

Aye, I think that's sinking in now across much of our generation. Their was a considerable anti old people backlash following the referendum.

 

Honestly, the only way to have any decent standard of life appears to be to join the fuckers at the top.

 

As for the Tories on Gloom's earlier post, I still think them occupying the centreground is better than what we had before. Aren't they effectively occupying the same space (give or take) as New Labour? The only real downside you could suggest for this is your point that they'll just revert to type after the next election, but if Labour remains where it is, they won't be able to.

 

As such, is it not just tribalism at this point that would prefer New Labour in the same position with virtually the same policies?

[Renton 22253]

Aye, I think that's sinking in now across much of our generation. Their was a considerable anti old people backlash following the referendum.

 

Honestly, the only way to have any decent standard of life appears to be to join the fuckers at the top.

 

As for the Tories on Gloom's earlier post, I still think them occupying the centreground is better than what we had before. Aren't they effectively occupying the same space (give or take) as New Labour? The only real downside you could suggest for this is your point that they'll just revert to type after the next election, but if Labour remains where it is, they won't be able to.

 

As such, is it not just tribalism at this point that would prefer New Labour in the same position with virtually the same policies?

I think May is talking like she is a centrist but isn't in reality. Watch and see that they won't be able to demonstrate any enacted policies or metrics to back up their so-called compassion. But the usual channels of spin and rhetoric will be enough to convince enough of the public otherwise (or at least make them feel better for voting for them). In short, it's actions not words that are needed. Edited October 5, 2016 by Renton

[Gemmill 46812]

Yep.

 

Incidentally and a bit o/t, but I strongly recommend listening to the radio 4 podcast "Analysis: breaking promises", especially if you're late generation x or generation y (which 90% of toontastic is). It's a cheery piece about how you're not going to get a pension and how we are returning to an age where your prosperity will be determined by your inheritance rather than your own merit.

I've recently (last 3 weeks) started trying to work out what my retirement income might look like, and working out what I can put away over the next 15 to 20 years with a view to possibly retiring early.

 

And honestly, you can almost feel yourself becoming more right wing as you do it, i.e. Needing stock markets to perform etc. I can see how old people don't give a fuck about anyone but themselves.

 

I've been rewatching a show recently which culminates in an event that rinses the markets*. Last time I watched it I thought "that would be mint". This time I thought "fuck that, that would ruin my retirement." [emoji38]

 

Anyway, aye, put away everything you can cos we're gonna get fully shafted.

 

*FAO David Kelly. See how I won't even name the show for fear of spoiling it. That's what a man who understands spoilers does.

[Rayvin 5466]

@@Renton - Yes but the longer that goes on (and they've been doing it for ten years now) the less likely people are to vote for them again. The worst thing for the Tories in the long run, IMO, is power. If Labour doesn't come in periodically to 'destroy' the economy, they lack anyone to point the finger at - they lack someone to claim they are more credible than. They are, at some point, going to get the hell kicked out of them in a GE, and the longer they have power, the bigger that kicking is going to be.

What we need, really, is for that kicking to bring about useful political change, rather than just a power swing. It's a high stakes gamble but if the Tories are chucked out by a party with truly revolutionary ideas and commitments to better representation in democracy in this country, then they've lost in the long run. And I genuinely believe that the longer they stay in power, the more disillusioned people will become, and therefore the more likely they are to vote for anything that looks like hope.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Rayvin

[Rayvin 5466]

I've recently (last 3 weeks) started trying to work out what my retirement income might look like, and working out what I can put away over the next 15 to 20 years with a view to possibly retiring early.

 

And honestly, you can almost feel yourself becoming more right wing as you do it, i.e. Needing stock markets to perform etc. I can see how old people don't give a fuck about anyone but themselves.

 

I've been rewatching a show recently which culminates in an event that rinses the markets*. Last time I watched it I thought "that would be mint". This time I thought "fuck that, that would ruin my retirement." [emoji38]

 

Anyway, aye, put away everything you can cos we're gonna get fully shafted.

 

*FAO David Kelly. See how I won't even name the show for fear of spoiling it. That's what a man who understands spoilers does.

 

This makes sense - but still, I think you can be right wing to the point of looking after your own matters, and not be right wing *enough* to vote Brexit and other similarly bizarre actions. How does Brexit help old people's pensions? I would have thought it jeopardises them.

[Dr Gloom 22372]

I've recently (last 3 weeks) started trying to work out what my retirement income might look like, and working out what I can put away over the next 15 to 20 years with a view to possibly retiring early.

 

And honestly, you can almost feel yourself becoming more right wing as you do it, i.e. Needing stock markets to perform etc. I can see how old people don't give a fuck about anyone but themselves.

 

I've been rewatching a show recently which culminates in an event that rinses the markets*. Last time I watched it I thought "that would be mint". This time I thought "fuck that, that would ruin my retirement." [emoji38]

 

Anyway, aye, put away everything you can cos we're gonna get fully shafted.

 

*FAO David Kelly. See how I won't even name the show for fear of spoiling it. That's what a man who understands spoilers does.

 

becoming more right wing in your old age is an inevitability,. i've seen it happen to my mam, my grandparents and now my brother. i'm resisting it as much as i can but can already feel it taking hold. 

[Park Life 71]

The hysteria in the MSM in the UK is something to behold with reg to Labour moving to the left. Me and Mrs P belong to Greenpeace and Die Linke (the proper left) we'd probably be strung up if we moved to England.

[Alex 35808]

"Ordinary working people" set to replace "Hardworking families" as the latest piece of meaningless drivel

[Park Life 71]

I've recently (last 3 weeks) started trying to work out what my retirement income might look like, and working out what I can put away over the next 15 to 20 years with a view to possibly retiring early.

 

And honestly, you can almost feel yourself becoming more right wing as you do it, i.e. Needing stock markets to perform etc. I can see how old people don't give a fuck about anyone but themselves.

 

I've been rewatching a show recently which culminates in an event that rinses the markets*. Last time I watched it I thought "that would be mint". This time I thought "fuck that, that would ruin my retirement." [emoji38]

 

Anyway, aye, put away everything you can cos we're gonna get fully shafted.

 

*FAO David Kelly. See how I won't even name the show for fear of spoiling it. That's what a man who understands spoilers does.

Save yourself mate.

[Park Life 71]

@@Renton - Yes but the longer that goes on (and they've been doing it for ten years now) the less likely people are to vote for them again. The worst thing for the Tories in the long run, IMO, is power. If Labour doesn't come in periodically to 'destroy' the economy, they lack anyone to point the finger at - they lack someone to claim they are more credible than. They are, at some point, going to get the hell kicked out of them in a GE, and the longer they have power, the bigger that kicking is going to be.

What we need, really, is for that kicking to bring about useful political change, rather than just a power swing. It's a high stakes gamble but if the Tories are chucked out by a party with truly revolutionary ideas and commitments to better representation in democracy in this country, then they've lost in the long run. And I genuinely believe that the longer they stay in power, the more disillusioned people will become, and therefore the more likely they are to vote for anything that looks like hope.

Most of the PLP are basically scum. The antics against Corbyn and his supporters (a party with now record no of members) is distasteful and very poor tactics in the medium term.

 

The masses have moved to the right all across Europe this should be the packet for discussion not that the Labour party is moving back to its roots.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Park Life

[Renton 22253]

becoming more right wing in your old age is an inevitability,. i've seen it happen to my mam, my grandparents and now my brother. i'm resisting it as much as i can but can already feel it taking hold.

Somebody posted a graph of this once, it's definitely true. I was Rayvin once.

[Dr Gloom 22372]

clearly mr jones has an agenda but this is a decent watch

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2016/oct/05/conservative-party-owen-jones-conference-a-country-that-works-for-everyone-video

[Dr Gloom 22372]

Somebody posted a graph of this once, it's definitely true. I was Rayvin once.

 

yeah, me too  

[Park Life 71]

Somebody posted a graph of this once, it's definitely true. I was Rayvin once.

It's just that as you get older you realise that everyone is clueless.

[PaddockLad 17904]

Smart move by May, this. Occupying the centre ground is the perfect response to Labour lurching to the left. Compassionate conservatism, pitched well, will win the next election against a weak and divided opposition. Then once they get into power again they can introduce the typically nastier Tory measures. It's smart politics. If Corbyn had half a clue he'd be trying to do the same.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37556019

If Corbyn did that we'd be in exactly the same situation as we've been in for the last decade iyam, two parties trying to claim the centre ground. Let's face it, it's not worked for millions of people and went some way to causing Brexit.

[Dr Gloom 22372]

my mother took me on rallies for the miners, CND, against the first Iraq war - you name it - when i was young. and you should hear some of the bile that comes out of her mouth now. i truly hope i never become that embittered in my old age but fear it happens to us all, to a certain degree. 

[Park Life 71]

my mother took me on rallies for the miners, CND, against the first Iraq war - you name it - when i was young. and you should hear some of the bile that comes out of her mouth now. i truly hope i never become that embittered in my old age but fear it happens to us all, to a certain degree. 

Just remember you're only projecting your fears and failings onto others. The stuff you find yourself hating others for are the very things that you worry about becoming yourself.

[Renton 22253]

Most of the PLP are basically scum. The antics against Corbyn and his supporters (a party with now record no of members) is distasteful and very poor tactics in the medium term.

 

The masses have moved to the right all across Europe this should be the packet for discussion not that the Labour party is moving back to its roots.

Do you even know a single member of the PLP? To call them scum is way off the mark in 90% of cases. They just don't want the labour party to become an irrelevant talking shop for disenfranchised studentss, Islington trots, and anarchist infiltrators.

 

Anyway, this has been done to death, quite amused by Rayin's assertion that being in power is bad for the conservatives though.

[Rayvin 5466]

Somebody posted a graph of this once, it's definitely true. I was Rayvin once.

 

Dammit, that makes my entire struggle just sound futile.